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Thoughts on HF verticals

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Matt285:
So. I'm waiting for my HF rig to be repaired (fingers crossed) and thinking about installing a multiband HF vertical with multiple ground radials. Likely a Hustler 6 BTV since I enjoy working multiple bands and cant really get my 135' OCF Dipole up high enough to be super effective. Don't get me wrong I do work some DX here and there, but it's nothing like when it was at 65' (Different house) What are your thoughts on Vertical performance and what is your setup? Thanks

nickcarr3151:
Heh, well, I purchased the 6BTV and it quickly became a lesson in futility and endless frustration.  Granted, I learned some harsh realities due to the experience but it was a complete waste of time and energy.  I went for the 'lower-cost' solution and that backfired. 

As they say, YMMV, but I would stay away from these kind of verticals.  They promise everything but require an extreme amount of patience. The biggest problem is that you need to assemble everything 'perfectly' from the start.  Presuming you do this correctly then you need to assemble the complete antenna and then tune (each trap) from lowest band (80m) and work your way up.  It may require tweaking each trap a little bit here and there.  So to say that you'll likely have to bring down and put up the antenna a few times is also an understatement.  You may get 80/40/20 right but then the 17/10/6 traps are way off.  Or better yet, you get 80 then 40 and then 20 tuned -- but then 80 is suddenly out of whack.  Yes, it was like whackamole.

What pissed me off about my 6BTV experience is that I finally got mine tuned for 40/20/10 (but no others would come close) and then after a few uses, one of the traps failed.  There was some arcing inside and all I found was scorch marks on the trap.  I was only running 100W too.

The *happiest* moment was tearing the thing down and throwing it in a box.  I was planning to throw it out but someone offered me shipping costs to mail it to them.

I'm pretty happy with my current antenna -- but it is a compromise:  https://zerofive-antennas.com/productdisplay/10-40-meter-groundplane-freestanding-vertical-antenna-unun

The 10-40 GP doesn't require any ground radials and is (relatively) easy to install.  It still requires commitment to do it right -- which after my 6BTV experience -- I did do it right the first time.  :)

If you have a lot of grass and don't mind doing the radial work then consider this:  https://zerofive-antennas.com/productdisplay/43-foot-10-160-meter-multiband-foldover-vertical-antenna-unun

Just note the 43ft'er is a VERY LARGE ANTENNA.  It's not for the timid.

FWIW, vertical antennas are noisy compared to wires.  If you have the space (and I really mean space here...) then it may be worthwhile.  I would ONLY buy a high quality vertical though.   Read all of the instructions PRIOR to buying one of these.  Also search YouTube for videos.  They will be valuable to learn what's required in terms of parts, tools, accessories and the commitment.

Here's a good idea of what's involved.  The author went with DXE's 43ft vertical kit:  http://www.k8jhr.com/files/43_ft_vertical_antenna.pdf

ThaDood:
I've always done great with upper HF VERT antennas, from 20M on up, but for 40M and below, in 2007 I tried out Shunt Feeding my 50ft tower that I had at the time. Simple set-up, a Yaesu FT-857D transceiver, MFJ-941D manual tuner, and a simple Shunt Feed to the tower using only four 100ft GND Radials. How did it work??? So-so on 100W TX on 160M, 75M, 60M, and 40M. I already had a 40M dipole, and no way did the Tower Shunt Feed beat that, but it was less noisy on RX. TX tune-up on the preceding lower bands seemed easy, but when I broke-in to several nets, several times I'd get back, "You are not strong, but we could hear you above the noise level." I actually had gotten into a 160M net in PA where folks said the same, "Not strong, but can hear you." 160M is the band where they seem kind of snobby, if you aren't at least an Arm Chair S+20/9 copy, they don't want anything to do with you. RX was a totally different story. Just about everyone was coming in at least S+20/9, and very, very low noise floor. But, medium wave was the big surprise! In the middle of the day, NYC's big 3, (660kHz, 770kHz, and 880kHz.), were all coming in at an S9, and NYC was 300 miles east of my QTH at the time. I was hearing 1kW stations from+100 miles away! So, on MW, that Shunt Fed Tower was a MW DX king. I didn't keep it for long, since I'd gotten rid of the tower, the FT-857D, and that 1,800ft ASL property, to get the hell out of Western New York. So, if I every do a Shunt Fed Tower as a VERT again, next time I'll invest into at least 20 100ft GND Radials. How do you do it? Just type in the search engine "Shunt Feeding A Tower", and several neat sites come up with various methods to do so. I still want to run a VERT insulated wire up the trunk of the tallest tree where I am now and see what that does. 

Josh:
As said, unless getting the ant cheap, stay away from traps. The 43ft fiberglass ants seem to work better, but their cost is way out of line, far as I'm concerned. The neat thing about the 'glass ants is you can double the length of wire to the top, linear loading it that way. Also chared traps aren't restricted to verticals, have a few Mosley classic tribander traps here that didn't like nearby lightning strikes.

Brian:
I have very limited experience with verticals on HF but I do own a Hy-Gain multiband antenna.

I carried out an A/B test against my Inverted V. I tuned the vertical for best SWR on the frequency I was using (wasn't concerned about the other bands). 150 watts AM on 48 mtrs.
Using the Inv V, a friend could receive my signal at about an s9 on his Grundig portable ~80 miles away.
On the Hy-Gain vertical, he could only just detect a signal.

Reception of my signal on an SDR ~470 miles distant was different. About an s9 on the Inv V and s8 on the vertical.

When the weather improves, I'm going to drag the Hy-Gain out of the shed and set it up properly using my recently acquired (and brilliant) NanoVNA .

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