HFU HF Underground
Technical Topics => Equipment => Topic started by: Kilokat7 on August 25, 2013, 1342 UTC
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Just curious if anyone has HF receive capabilities in their vehicles? If so, what are you using for receiver and antenna? What kind of results do you get, and what can be expected? Is electrical noise an issue for you?
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I have a Sony CDX-GT570S (http://www.sony-asia.com/product/cdx-gt570s)[1] in my 2000 VW Passat. Pulled out the old Monsoon radio, got a harness and tried the factory active antenna.
On MW, there's a lot of noise, nothing on SW, and FM worked fine.
Put a 31" whip on an NMO mount on the trunk (the standard antenna length its made for) and MW, SW, and FM work great.
As far as overall performance:
On MW its pretty good. I'm satisfied with it. Not picking up any noticeable noise from the car.
On FM its fine. Same as on MW, no noise from the car.
On SW is another thing. When the car is parked, not running, and lights off, SW is fine from 4800-18150 (I haven't explored much below 4800). I listen to R Australia (9580), V of Korea (15180, 11710), V of Greece (15630. Radio doesn't get 9400-9500 >:(, so 9420 is out), R Romania (9700), R Serbia (9685), V of Croatia (9925 :'( ), The Mighty KBC (9925), R National da Amazonia (11780), Firedrakes on 13 MHz, Japan somewhere on 15 MHz, and other random stuff I find scattered around. I'd say its probably comparable or a bit better than a portable with a whip as far as sensitivity, but far better in audio quality. Wish it had AM sync...
When the car is running, there is ignition noise from ~11MHz through 17MHz. If the station is strong enough, its not a big deal.
When the headlights are on, can hear what sounds to be a whine from the computer system through most of the SW band. In places, it is strong enough to make a strong station unlistenable (e.g. 4840 in the evenings). Do not hear any of this on MW nor FM.
Going to try replacing the spark plugs with RFI-suppressed ones. That should help, I hope, but it won't do a thing for when some cars are next to me, as it'll pick up their ignition noise. Noticeable, but not very strong and all I have to do is get away from them.
I put this in a year ago using the factory antenna, and last winter finally got the second antenna hooked up. Even with the noise, I still love it and have fulfilled a dream I had since 1988 when I bought my Sony ICF-2010. Listening to the 2010 in the car was possible, but not elegant nor all that great. Listening to SW through the whole system is nothing short of fantastic.
As far as the GT570S itself goes- It does the job and it sounds good. The faceplate is gaudy, buttons & interface are a PITA, too few memories, and no direct entry. Its not a radio in which to scan the bands with, especially while driving. At some time, there may have been something better out there, but got this new off of eBay from Israel and now his supply dried up. Hard to find anything similar as of late, so while the interface sucks, yet sounds good, I'm fairly happy with it since there isn't much choice. And even a year ago when I found it, it was the only one I could find (he had 10, so I got one. Wish I would've picked up a spare).
My car is 13+ years old and still runs well. I've driven a few other new cars for a day (while mine is in the shop). The factory radio on a 2013 Passat or a Toureg is fantastic on MW, even with the little microscopic stub of an antenna. Touch screen, sensitive & selective. I was amazed. But no SW. And with the size of that radio vs my single DIN Sony, not sure what I would do with a new car. Hard to give up SW, even with a nice touchscreen & sensitive MW radio. So I keep my car with SW & no car payments. :)
I'm also a ham, so have various transceivers, but none of those have a nice bandwidth for SW listening other than the Yaesu FT-847, but that thing is not going in the car on a daily basis. Plus, with the factory VW radio, never had a way to hook it into the stereo system. With the Sony, it has an aux jack, so could use from an external radio, but then, what's the point? Then have to pack it all up & lock it in the truck when not by the car. And if I use an amateur transceiver, the bw will suck. Car stereo is a lot more convenient and sounds really nice.
If you're considering doing it, do it. Search high & low for receivers now, as it may take a while (if you want a car stereo with SW). As with anything with a limited antenna, it won't be a hardcore DX machine like Chris' 635' loop+SDR, but it certainly will be well worth the effort.
While there are still broadcasters on SW...
[1] Interestingly, Sony seems to have scrubbed the SW portions of the radio from their sites. No idea why, but the box says GT570S and it certainly has SW.
[2] Poking around a bit more...
Kenwood KDC-MP149 (http://au.kenwood.com/Car_Entertainment/1DIN_Receivers/KDC-MP149)
That model is for sale online in Australia.
Seems as though this may have SW:
Pioneer DEH-4450BT (http://www.pioneer.com.au/au/products/25/121/61/DEH-4450BT/specs.html)
Found some on eBay, but no mention of SW with that part number.
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You have to be careful with foreign car rx's. Some won't allow 10 KHz AM channel spacing (Both of the one you listed above do) and suffer limited frequency range. The Pioneer stops at 1640KHz, no Celeste for you! Also its becoming harder and harder to find receivers that get 1710KHz. Also all foreign AM sections are built for 4.5 KHz audio without NRSC, so domestic stations will sound overly bright and spitty.
If I had the money, I'd probably get the Kenwood.
...After saying that, I took another look at the specs. "Useful sensitivity" for the Kenwood is 40uV vs. 28uV on the Pioneer. That's a pretty substantial difference, but its hard to know what exactly useful is. Everything used to be referenced to 12dB SINAD.
Food for thought.
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I had a Sony XR-CA620X in my truck that I used off & on that was pretty good. I didn't even bother with trying to minimize the noise from my toyota, but on the strong stations it had good reception. I used to listen to RHC, VOG, RCI, etc.. with a great signal and also Alistair Cooke's 'Letter From America' on the BBC while driving into work in the mornings. Antenna was using the stock whip.
Used to live near St. Augustine and would run the coastal highway for work and could hear an AM station from the Bahamas a couple of times around 1530khz IIRC driving home in the evenings.
I stopped listening to SW on it once I got my XM setup and the radio just died 2 weeks ago after 10yrs. of service. Got mine from Jacky's which was an online Saudi Arabian outfit, but they've been gone for some time.
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I had a Sony XR-CA620X also. I took it out when I got a another car back in 2007. It was a decent radio. the only thing it didn't have was SSB. You could use a 40 meter whip but you'll probably need a heavy duty mount so it doesn't blow off of the car.
Someone I know drove around with a Realistic DX-390 using batteries and I think a 2 meter mag mount antenna. I guess the best thing to do is put one in the car and see what you can hear. You might be surprised.
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Capt. Ganja once told me he used a portable receiver and some sort of mag mount antenna when he delivered pizzas to listen to pirates, Bill. He said it did a pretty good job.
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I also got a Sony CDX-GT570S radio from the guy in Israel off ebay and its works great. I put it in my 1987 Jaguar XJ6. The only noise problems I've had with it was engine noise, turned out the hood somehow wasn't grounded to the body, simple ground wire from the hood to the body of the car fixed that and the aux cooling fan motor when it ran produced alot of rf noise. Turned out it was worn out and replacing it fixed that. I've got another car (Toyota Solara) the radio just died in and am looking for another SW radio to put in it. I wish I had bought a couple of those Sonys when they were available. I was looking at the Kenwood and Pioneer mentioned above but I haven't found the specs on the sw tuning ranges. Any ideas? Just checked my manual on my Sony and the sensitivty is 40uV for whatever that means. Its recieves very well with the stock telescoping power antenna on the Jag. Kinda leaning towards the Kenwood for the Toyota but thinking about how the rear window antenna will work on SW, it worked great on MW and FM before the stock JBL radio died.
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I was looking at the Kenwood and Pioneer mentioned above but I haven't found the specs on the sw tuning ranges. Any ideas?
The Kenwood; http://manual.kenwood.com/files/4edc696db7bdc.pdf (http://manual.kenwood.com/files/4edc696db7bdc.pdf)
The Pioneer; http://docs.pioneer.eu/Manuals/DEH_4450BT_DEH_4450BT_manual/GetPDF.ashx (http://docs.pioneer.eu/Manuals/DEH_4450BT_DEH_4450BT_manual/GetPDF.ashx)
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I ordered the Kenwood. $89.99 with free shipping off ebay. Hopefully it will make the trip in one piece!
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Great replies, this gives me some stuff to think about. Thanks all
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To the good doctor; let us know how it turns out. After looking at the limited frequency range on SW for the pioneer, it does indeed look like of the two the kenwood is the way to go.
...Now, where did I put my piggy bank.
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Yes I will let you know how things turn out. Fingers crossed!
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In both the SUVs that regularly get driven off-road I have HF, 160 meters to at least 70 cm, one has HF to 23 cm. One has a Kenwood TS-480SAT for HF, and a Tarheel 300A. The other has a Kenwood TS-2000X and again a Tarheel 300A. Both of those setups work pretty well and I regularly monitor pirates and utilities from the vehicles.
In the wife’s SUV (never goes off-road ;) ) in addition to VHF/UHF I have HF RX also, in the form of an Icom R2500. The HF antenna used is a Hamstick. Normally the 40 meter Hamstick is the one that is on it, but sometimes one of the others. This works, and is OK for casual listening, but really not optimal.
My Miata has an Icom R1500 to go along with the Yaesu FT-8900R, but the antenna used by the R1500 is a 42” whip, and leaves a lot to be desired on HF. It does work, but rather like a portable.
T!
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I checked all the Australian vendors I could find, none of them will ship out of the country. Anyone have a plan B?
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A little birdie brought a kenwood to the car recently, I'll let you know how it turns out.
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Years ago I met someone who used a device called a "Spider Antenna" for HF receive and transmit from his vehicle. He swore by it. Unfortunately, it looks like they went out of business some time ago; perhaps it might be possible to find one for sale, used. I checked on eBay, but no luck.
http://www.spiderantenna.com/spec.html
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I don't think there was anything special about the antenna. If I can recall, each element at the top had its own coil to resonate in the ham band of choice. Whatever ham band you were on would make a good match to the transmitter if you had that particular coil combination in place on the stick.
If you're just receiving in your car, you don't really need to match impedances that carefully. IMHO, A good reciever will do fine with just a 4 to 5 foot whip.
I suppose if you wanted to go through the trouble of resonating the whip on a particular SW band, you could make a simple tuned circuit for that particular band.
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Spider Antenna no longer sold, inventor passed in '02. eham has a "Friends Remembered" for him:
"previous w9owx Mpls. Mn. got ham liscense at age 12......used to own Thee spider antenna business,as it turns out speaking as his son, in his later years was not a very nice person,he ended up in a paupers grave,but he certainly asked for ever thing he recieved,going to hell is not a nice ending "
yikes. Apparently he was not very well liked.
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So, a follow up...
I observed that the kenwood in the car was a little deaf, so I installed it in a vehicle with a real antenna, not a printed one, and the difference is quit amazing. I can hear hams on 75 meters, shortwave broadcast stations, and even heard a numbers station on it last night. It makes me wonder what it would do with an 8' whip?
A DX machine it is not, but I can probably hear half of what's out there with relatively little effort vs. what I can hear in the house. Despite the mighty V8 two feet away, ignition noise isn't bad at all, much better that what I expected.
So in short, yeah, it's kinda gaudy and doesn't have RDS or 1710, the noise blanker seems to work, and I can listen to strong (am at least ) pirates in the car. Definitely worth the hundred bucks.
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Which model of Kenwood?
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KDC-U356R; The clencher was this one had USB playback ;)
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Nice.
Just checked eBay and there are a bunch of Pioneer DEH-X2650UI available!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-DEH-X2650UI-Shortwave-Car-Auto-Radio-FM-AM-SW-CD-RDS-USB-IPod-Sony-/251382893874?pt=Car_Audio_In_Dash_Receivers&hash=item3a87968d32 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pioneer-DEH-X2650UI-Shortwave-Car-Auto-Radio-FM-AM-SW-CD-RDS-USB-IPod-Sony-/251382893874?pt=Car_Audio_In_Dash_Receivers&hash=item3a87968d32)
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Yeah, the problem with the Pioneer is its tuning range, shortwave is broken up into 20 or more pieces, none of which cover 6800-7000 KHz.
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And MW with 10 kHz steps is only 530-1640.
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Well I've finally got tired of looking at the Kenwood in the box on the counter and decided to hook it up and be disappointed. Boy was I ever wrong! I've got it hooked up to a power supply and a 4 foot piece of wire for an antenna on the kitchen table and it works great! Incredably it receives almost as good as my 525, R1000, R70 and SW8 on the big longwires out in the woods. I haven't got it in the Solara yet due to waiting on a harness to bypass the JBL amp in the car but if it receives half as good in the car as it does in the kitchen I'll be very happy. Yes its kinda cheesy looking but doesn't bother me. Sounds decent too on some Bose 301s. Might be the best 90 bucks I've ever spent, except for party stuff during the 80's! Model KDC-MP149.
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ALCON,
I know this is an old post but I wanted to let you know that I purchased a Alinco DX-R8T and will install it in my 2012 Dodge Ram 1500 hopefully this weekend if I can complete my required case assignment for my doctoral studies (that must take priority). I went too long without HF (other than 11-meters) in my vehicle so I hope this works out. My antenna is a Opek HVT-400B which covers from 80 to 10 meters on HF plus VHF. The only disadvantage is the need to use a jumper cable to switch bands. If anyone has a better solution for a receive only antenna, please let me know. I will report on the results once it is finally complete. Only the antenna portion is installed. The radio and power cable installation are next. I would have used my Icom R-75 but there is no room to install it without purchasing an expensive radio mount system (use by law enforcement) and I would have to remove my center console. The Alinco has a detachable head which will be mounted on top of my 11-meter transceiver for easy access. I welcome any advice for mobile HF use.
V/r
Vince
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I use a ALINCO DX70 with LDG auto atu in my van I'am a ham as well but like to SWL when I'am mobile has 100 memory channels and use various antennas as I TX&RX
Easy to use no fuss radio
My van is diesel and get minimal electrical noise though on my works truck had piezo crystal injectors (smiler to what's in a electronic cigaret lighters) and boy where they noisy
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I did finally install the Alinco with the Opek antenna and it pulls in signals very well. The only two issues are: first, the Opek antenna needs a jumper to switch bands so you need to pick the band you want to monitor before you start driving. Second, even with the noise blanker, I have unacceptable spark ignition noise above idle. I just purchased two West Mountain Radio CLRspkr units, one from Universal designed for the vehicle and their latest one purchased directly from West Mountain Radio which I am trying out in my shack. I will temporarily install it in my 2012 Dodge Ram 1500 and try it to see if it eliminates spark ignition. It seems to work on other interference but the trick is to have the volume at a specific level or it does not work too well. Also, you need to get used to the digitally processed audio but like all things in life, it is a trade-off. No free lunches here. I thought I would give it a try before I start grounding all the vehicle parts to the frame. I read the forums on vehicle noise and it can be frustrating and turns out to be a hit and miss process. I welcome any technical advice.
V/r
Vince
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I know several hams with hf equipment in their cars.
Have also an ICOM 706 HF Radio and an hombrew 2.7m long hf-antenna, otimised for 40m (7.1 Mhz).
That works fine at all times. DL and EUR will go allways and when condx ok for grey line, than also
contacts wid other continents (DX) works fine in SSB and mostly in CW (SchurrKey at left knee)
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Put the Pioneer in the car.
Compared to the Sony CDX-GT570S:
- No 43m pirate range. >:(
- 530-1640 kHz
- Audio bandwidth is narrower. While the fidelity suffers, it does take out the 5kHz hets (which was getting annoying).
- Noise suppression from the car is better (but does not completely eliminate it)
- 21 MHz SWBC band
- Seek button moves manually and doesn't scan unless held in (which is the opposite of the Sony, which drove me cRaZy and the main reason why I changed)
- SW reception seems a bit better, but unless I put them side by side, really can't prove it.
- MW reception does seem noticeably better.
- It doesn't desense as much when near a MW sta
Its not perfect, but does the job adequately. Don't regret the Sony and was fun, even listening to pirates on it. That I will miss, but honestly, only caught a handful in the car.
The Pioneer stays for now as it does eek out an advantage over the Sony. Plus it has a USB (Universal Serial Bus) port for a memory stick with MP3s. So when radio is boring, can pop in a stick with The Conet Project...