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General Category => General Radio Discussion => Topic started by: n2avh on February 12, 2025, 0114 UTC

Title: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on February 12, 2025, 0114 UTC
Maybe it's the alcohol speaking (of course it is!), but if anyone wants to talk about the good old days of SWDX, back when there was actual DX, I thought I'd open this thread. Especially if you can find yourself in old editions of Frendx (https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-DX/NASWA_Frendx.htm), or maybe even Speedx although to me that was some bizarre parallel universe that I knew nothing about, except that it existed. I started in SW DXing when I was 9, back in 1973, and was very active into the late 1980s with occasional bursts in the 1990s.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: BoomboxDX on February 12, 2025, 1032 UTC
I remember SW from the late 70's through today. Less stations today, of course, and ionospheric conditions aren't quite what they were in prior decades, even during this solar maximum. But, on average, the radios are better, with the advent of DSP in the early 2010's. DSP has pretty much saved the SWL hobby.

There still is DX, although it's different, obviously. But it's still cool to hear Kashgar, Urumchi, Botswana, Swaziland or Madagascar here in the PNW US.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on February 12, 2025, 1314 UTC
I never did much DXing above 6200 except for the occasional stray Bolivian or Peruvian, and it's the tropical bands where the real collapse has been.  China and the Koreas keep things crowded enough above that (and they're way over half the total presence below that, paltry as it is), but the fun factor in those is pretty low. Certainly there are plenty of European private and pirate stations, but listening to hobbyists isn't the same as listening to stations that didn't exist for my listening but that of real everyday listeners.  I can't judge propagation then vs. now because the radios and what's out there to hear has changed so much, but as a tropical bands DXer sunspot maximums never mattered much to me--winter was what mattered! 
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: autovon on March 01, 2025, 1429 UTC
Thanks for sharing this great resource.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: WPE6HET on March 01, 2025, 1849 UTC
I've been DXing and SWLing since 1967. My first QSL was from the Voice of America in Dixon, California. The SW bands, of course, abounded with stations and relays, making it challenging to catch non-international broadcasters. "Border Radio" was popular, and catching the high-powered MW border stations in Mexico was fun. Verifying the VOA relay stations was enjoyable, too, as was chasing the tropical bands for Central and South America. I signed up for my Popular Electronics monitor certificate in 1968, and so I'm still WPE6HET.  :) BTW, the old back issues of Popular Electronics can be viewed on the worldradiohistory website cited above.

I didn't listen to pirates before 2001, when regular SW broadcasting gradually dwindled and the international stations signed off. Now they are a major draw! The quieter bands have enabled interesting catches, like BBC and Radio Free Asia from the Middle East and the Philippines. There are some newer stations. Radio Channel 292 in Germany for example.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: Robot Matrix on March 04, 2025, 0546 UTC
My first exposure to SW was a Science Fair AM Short Wave Radio 28-176 from Radio Shack I bought in 1984-85 when I was 10 or 11. I picked up VOA, the Russian Woodpecker, broadcasts from all over the world, and weird signals that sounded like an old metal window fan or a C-130 (probably wideband digital). I was hooked!

As a child radio tinkerer with lots of RS kits, I pulled a loopstick coil halfway off the ferrite bar on an AM Radio and started hearing hams (probably 160m AM'ers), numbers stations, and other SW signals. Little did I know back then, that I changed the inductance of the LC tank circuit, thereby changing the frequency range of the radio.

Later, I bought a Knight-Star Roamer from a retired CB repair man, whom i had bought CB's from prior. This greatly expanded any SW range of frequencies prior to what I had. PLUS, being able to receive SSB/CW signals, and NDB's in the LF/MF bands. I had that for YEARS, and this and all prior gear was bought with lawn mowing money (except a couple kits I got for a birthday or Christmas). But, by my late teens stopped using it because I bought a Realistic DX-390.

At this point (in the 90's), I was buying Popular Communications magazines and others, where I first got exposed to pirate radio (which you can see on that website posted above... thanks!). I had a hard time picking them up... maybe on occasion but always weak. It would be much later I had any luck on that.

I wish I still had my logs of SW and other bands from when I was a kid and a teenager, much less the kits and radios. I never did send off for QSL's back then,  though I should've.

Anyway, thanks for the alcohol influenced topic... having a brew myself right now. But I have fond memories of my journey with all things radio and love  reminiscing. Thanks!
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: East Troy Don on March 06, 2025, 0218 UTC
While new SW DX'ers are welcome to our wonderful world hobby I feel some sorrow for them as they will never experience how great it used to be - Radio Damascus, Radio Moscow, Radio Norway, etc. with clear blowtorch signals targeting the Western hemisphere.   
Where's a good Cold War when you need one?! :)
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: Rob. on March 06, 2025, 1511 UTC
I started young, too, about 7-8 yrs old. First station was on my grandmother's SW portable was CFCF in Canada on 6005 kHz. I listened to it a lot and I was hooked. Often listened to the classical music program on Deutsche Welle late at night while trying to sleep. Listening to R. Moscow made you feel like the govt was going to knock on your door at any minute. ;). Was into listening to the tropical stations in the 90m and 60m bands, loved the music. Listened to a lot of 75m AM ham stations (no BFO on the radio at the time although I eventually built one).


I then got into utility and pirate listening. Then scanner monitoring, then CB, then ham radio. All this lead to a career in electronics in one form or another.


I am now in a location where I have decent HF reception and a good antenna so I share this publicly on my KiwiSDRs. I enjoy this because there have been so many new listeners that have thanked me for getting them interested in SW listening and many have purchased their own equipment. Things have changed a lot on the air and it is too bad we didn't have today's technology back then when there was a ton of stations still on the air.




 
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NJQA on March 07, 2025, 0028 UTC
Back in the seventies, several of us teenage SWLs visited a older guy near Baltimore.  He brought out an old wire (yes, wire not magnetic tape) recorder and played SW station IDs from the thirties and forties.  Wow.  I was floored at the exotic DX and the fact that the signals sounded so good.  Sure wish I had a mp3 of it today!

It never occurred to me that the stuff I heard every day back then would be similarly “exotic” one day, as SW broadcasters shut down.  Now I wish I had made my own recordings during the seventies.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: Ct Yankee on March 07, 2025, 1324 UTC
With one TV and 4 younger siblings within 9 years of me, I was frequently relegated to the radio for baseball play by play.  In addition there was a lot less baseball on TV in the 60's and 70's.  My parents took notice and bought me the pictured multi band radio for Christmas 1969 (I was 12).  It worked great for DXing baseball for transmissions emanating from Minnesota and eastward.  I even found that AFRTS transmitted a game nightly taking the visiting team's feed.

I had started experimenting with the radio's whip antennas and limited SW bands, I was in awe of what I received.  One day I hooked the receiver to the wiring for the TV antenna atop the house, I have been hooked ever since.

(https://i.ibb.co/JjwSXs0Q/Martin-Century-Mark-IV-CF1888-1969.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kxp8CrRw)

Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: Synclair on March 10, 2025, 1655 UTC
Those were the days! I first discovered S radio on my sisters old tube (valve) radio - don't know the make or model. It had a broken tuning scale, so I had to put my hand in the back and tune blind. The number of times I got a shock from the HT line when I wasn't careful, I can't count. I remember, though, catching some gems. Radio Madagascar, Havanna, Tirana, Budapest, Bucarest were some I remember. I didn't ask for QSL cards because I had no idea what frequency I was tuned to. That must have been around summer 1973.

It wasn't until the following year when I got a pocket radio for my birthdat and discovered MW radio proper. I had, of course, listened to Radio 1 etc. but one day I came across a strange station in English I had never heard. It was RNI (Radio Northsea International). It was afternoon when I first heard it but that got me thinking - what else is out there? The rest is history, it set me on a long-time hobby of hunting for stations that few in my town hwd wcer heard of, let alone listened to. Happy days.

I do feel disappointed for those just entering the world of DX. Yes, there are still gems to be found on SW and MW, but with all the noise from WiFi, washing machines and - the bane of my life; fridges, it is a much more challenging hobbie than it was back in the day. I tend to hover around the lower broadcast bands - MW, 75, 60, 49 metre bands and rarely go above 31 metres.

I now have a number or receivers but, not being as mobile as I used to be, stick mainly with SDR, occasionally using my QODOSEN DX-286 or XDATA D-808. I use an ad-hoc antenna - just two long wires for ant and ground about 22 metres each, which serves me well.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: osiris on March 15, 2025, 0046 UTC
With one TV and 4 younger siblings within 9 years of me, I was frequently relegated to the radio for baseball play by play.  In addition there was a lot less baseball on TV in the 60's and 70's.  My parents took notice and bought me the pictured multi band radio for Christmas 1969 (I was 12).  It worked great for DXing baseball for transmissions emanating from Minnesota and eastward.  I even found that AFRTS transmitted a game nightly taking the visiting team's feed.

I had started experimenting with the radio's whip antennas and limited SW bands, I was in awe of what I received.  One day I hooked the receiver to the wiring for the TV antenna atop the house, I have been hooked ever since.

(https://i.ibb.co/JjwSXs0Q/Martin-Century-Mark-IV-CF1888-1969.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kxp8CrRw)

I had one very similar to that. It was branded Overture and it was a solid radio. Had a heck of a speaker in it.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on March 17, 2025, 0140 UTC
Thanks to everyone who has commented. I was out of the country for a month and didn't have my HFU password on my phone, but I have enjoyed reading everyone's memories. 
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NQC on April 01, 2025, 1608 UTC
Hey All,

A bit late- but ...

I did "almost" all of it : VLF/ "Natural" radio (whistlers, etc), Afro/Euro  LW broadcasts from the US , MW Dx (on HIGH Q crystal sets and Icom , et al), HF  BIG tropical dx, utility, regular b'casts, I WAS a General class ham ,home brew gear  all V/UHF ham (inc 902 and 1290)- some on SSB ,TV FM dx , etc, etc , etc, etc ( and probably some categories I forgot ::)). Started in radio around 1968

Now only indoor  antennas and  also getting beat up quite badly by building fire alarm system noise, plasma TV's etc.

I USED to have a low noise antenna FARM on the roof. Long gone.

Still trying to keep my feet wet :  Gradually  working on a "precision scale " / very  high Q var cap baseboard for  use with various outboard modules ( for MW or HF ie crystal, TRF, regen , etc). Due to antenna situation , performance expectations are fairly low, but that's the way it goes now.


de NQC 
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on April 03, 2025, 2223 UTC
About the noise, I have an old SPR-4 that I foolishly acquired in the late 1990s and haven't used for like 20 years, and when I fired it up recently I couldn't hear anything except for a couple of those paid-time SW stations, whose call letters I don't remember...4840, 5010, etc. I assumed it was just out of alignment, but then I read that SPR-4s are pretty unlikely to fall out of alignment on their own, even after many years, so now I'm thinking it's just higher noise levels.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NQC on April 07, 2025, 2205 UTC
Hey N2AVH,

“ Noise” is obviously a subjective phenomenon.A number of QTH’s are now
beat up by device noise ( to whatever degree).

In ancient times there were zillions of high powered SW broadcasts. These were engineered for “ the masses” who very often were using moderate grade ( or lower) receivers on  telescopic antennas  in low or moderate noise environments.

Any decent rig on a long wire was gravy.

Now it’s not just a matter of getting blasted by local noise. It’s also the simple fact that nearly ALL strong broadcasts ( and utilities for that matter)
are simply GONE.

What is left ( outside of the ham bands) now ( IMHO) requires a GOOD rig, good antenna AND a quiet QTH .

There still is “ some “ stuff out there. But much of it is VERY far away and probably limited in power.

Ex:Currently there are MANY domestic broadcasts from China, especially on gray line.

Good luck hearing most (or any) of them if you can’t meet the criteria above.

There is still “SOME “ decent strength Western Hemisphere stuff still kicking around, but not a lot.

Now I just have to work “around” the noise ( whenever possible).

 I am concentrating much more on the broadcast band , with a very distant second effort on HF and long wave .

On the UP side, regenerative rigs “like “ short antennas . So my indoor 40 meter
“ quarter wave” may grab “ something “ .I haven’t done a regen since the farm came down off the roof.

It’s definitely a TBA for crystal or TRF rigs.

Not sure how much Dx I might get. But even strong local AM stations on a home brew (for music ) might be a fun alternative to the factory built DX 440.

The rig itself is “coming along” . I made a very good amount of progress on it this past weekend.

de NQC

Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on April 08, 2025, 2125 UTC
NQC- Yes, it's just a question of how much time, trouble, and expense we want to go through to hear a station that likely won't be there in a couple of years. I don't really understand the audience for those stations (largely Chinese and N/S Korean, but three Peruvians and one Bolivian, and a mixed bag of others) that still exist, given what must be very low rates of SW-receiver ownership. The US and European pirate/low-power stations are vanity projects that don't care if anyone's listening, so they will likely continue and even proliferate as long as there isn't a crackdown...and why would any government care at this point?  But I don't want to imagine a scenario in which shortwave broadcasting comes back into fashion, as that scenario would likely involve something apocalyptic.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NQC on April 09, 2025, 1251 UTC
Hey N2AVH,

 re The remaining "tropical"  stations ( Peru, Bolivia ,China, Brazil,Canada, etc) : In THEORY there are still remote areas of the world without much in the way of local radio station coverage or internet. So the few regional SW stations that ARE left may still have "some" audience (maybe) . . Many (or most) of the tropical SW stations in Central/S America also were on the AM broadcast band as well .I believe 80 or 90 % of the listener ship was always  on AM . SW was just kind of a 'fill in". Even back in the day  I also think that the   same advertising on SW made a lot less money as well.

FWIW,  way back when ,some of the German high end cars- for sale IN Germany- had 49 M for "regional" coverage of a few favorite stations.

Perhaps the shrinking audience and cost vs return  of SW simulcasts  ( along with transmitter parts maybe becoming harder to come by) struck a death blow for 99.9 % of all  tropicals .

There are a few "hobby" stations still on ( R. Tarma Peru 4775, +  1 AM and multiple  FM , WAZN 1470 Boston, WJIB 720 Boston, etc).

It seems that China may still have an audience for "tropicals "in rural areas . But they may be govt subsidized anyway .The PRC may simply want to flood ALL media outlets, even low audience tropicals.

Not sure if the US govt  really cares about SW pirates now . But admittedly (since my "friend" shut down- for HIS own reasons) ,  I haven't researched how many (if any ) busts there have been on US SW (or X band AM) pirates lately  . FWIW, most of the Xband AM outlets around here  shut down for their own reasons , not because of a bust.Probably the same deal on SW. But DON'T do it ANYWHERE on the  FM band. You really put a bull's eye on yourself there.

Re SW ever coming back , even during an "apocalypse". I really doubt it.Big SW stations would need lots of money and electricity. I also doubt that in a serious crisis than folks in the US would be trying to get info on SW. Any SW  activity in that scenario would be "lone cries in the wilderness" type stations  with the operators just " throwing it out there"  out of desperation. VERY few (or no) folks would probably  hear them.

 Low power local FM (or MAYBE AM) would be the "better" band of choice. But how many people  would have FM (or AM ) broadcast transmitters in their possession and ready to go during very bad times ?   Precious few.Their are a LOT more rogue  hams that would  be able to gear up on SW . But again, I doubt a population  on crisis  is going to park  for hours on 6955 hoping to hear something "useful ".

SW never had a huge audience anyways (compared to AM /FM), even during the 1970's heydays.SW broadcasting (like it or not)  is now  simply an obsolete technology.

de NQC
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on April 09, 2025, 1517 UTC
Re Radio Tarma, on their web page they have a chat function (well, at least as of a year ago) and someone said they were listening from inside a mine! So that was very heyday-of-tropical-bands. By the way, I asked Radio Cultural Amauta (4955) back in February why they were no longer on, and they got back to me very quickly to say the shortwave antenna "had problems" but they were fixing it.  I haven't heard them since then, even on closer SDRs (Bonaire, Argentina, Brazil...the Lima one is useless), so either they couldn't fix it or they asked themselves why they were bothering. I agree with you that the Chinese stations are probably not subject to the usual economic calculations--they just don't want anyone out-of-reach of the party line....as opposed to places like Burkina Faso, which went over to FM serving towns more than 30 years ago, and presumably didn't see the point of burning money to serve rural populations.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NQC on April 09, 2025, 2122 UTC
Hey N2AVH,

Tarma is a really cool “ network “ ( having the SW and I believe the AM outlet IN Tarma  and FMs scattered around the region- not sure how much of Peru these cover though).

Sinning against the radio Gods , I have listened to R T on stream ( which seems to be intermittently available).On one occasion he really played some awesome
Andean music, very similar to the music from my wife’s  birth region of Peru
( Departmento Junin ).

Other times ( WHEN he is streaming) it is “good”  but I wish I could remember the day / time he really played the gold records .

R. Cultural Amauta strikes a vague ( possibly imaginary) bell.I don’t THINK I ever logged them.

I have found that Peru , Chile and the Southern half of South America was always kind of tough even back in the day.Ecuador and most countries in Northern South America seemed a good bit easier.

Never had too much luck on the Africans ( except Spring Bok and 1 or  2 others from The Republic of South Africa).
 Maybe a few other tropicals from
Africa , but not many. Mostly it was the big guns.

Asia was also pretty much “ big guns “ only ( ie high powered R. Japan, etc  , over the
 N .Pole ). But even RJ  (actually FROM Japan ) was not too common for me.

I did strike gold one night while camping with my wife in Maine 20 years ago, logging 12 Peruvians in one night on the Icoms.

I believe many SW tropicals run single vertical towers , perhaps without much in the way of radials ( or maybe low height dipoles). I would bet most had/  have pretty high angle signal and fairly low power.This may explain why the more distant stations ain’t so easy to copy outside of the region ie in North America ( along with being in
a “ naturally “ noisy part of the band and propagation “ variability “ factors ).

But the higher angle SW is probably more dependable for , say, 50 to 300 miles- perhaps a bit more so during the day  and / low lobe leaAM probably limited to ground wave during the day.

Not sure how these small stations did at night- on AM or SW.

But having two frequency choices is  always good.

FWIW,I have found U.S. AM graveyard band/  single tower/ at 1 kw or less are good to about 300 mi at night.

Grey line may be a different matter: it has been said that it is not as dependent on the solar cycle and it may act somewhat like a duct , conducting signals further than just the simpler  and more conventional ionospheric propagation.

I also had some crazy stuff happen when I used to run 40 M SSB QRP  daylight NVIS.

“X” number of minutes after sunset ( when working NY) I would go from good copy to ZERO in 45 seconds to at most a minute and a half - EVERY DAY, at the EXACT same window after sunset.Like  clockwork. It was SO dependable it was almost freaky.I had a few theories, but nothing definitive.

de NQC
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: East Troy Don on April 10, 2025, 0230 UTC
Perhaps the shrinking audience and cost vs return  of SW simulcasts  ( along with transmitter parts maybe becoming harder to come by) struck a death blow for 99.9 % of all  tropicals

de NQC

Not to mention the death blow to the technicians that know how to service those  transmiiters.       Time marches on....
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NQC on April 10, 2025, 2148 UTC
Hey Don,

Absolutely true.Not only would a third world station have trouble finding parts for a tube dinosaur Collin’s , Continental  or RCA transmitter, but try finding someone qualified to actually WORK on one ( again IF they could find the parts).

Salvage, innovation,  substitution ,in house  rebuilding ( IF possible) , etc would be the order of the day.

Although most of these 1Kw tube wonders are fairly “ simple “ in design, it would probably take a REALLY talented tech to pull it off now.

And again, there is the $$$$!!!. I can see an owner wanting to keep an aging FM transmitter up. And probably, even an old AM rig.

But a SW transmitter? From a business standpoint it would be such a distant third , probably just to the point of “ junk it “.

The only exception I know of is on Tarma.He states he makes near zero money on SW and keeps 60 meters going purely as a public service and a labor of love.

Probably not the philosophy ( or even an option) nearly anywhere else.



NQC
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on April 12, 2025, 0156 UTC
Tarma and (if it ever returns) Amauta are cool because they existed back in the day, like Radio Brasil Central on 4985 and misc, Brazilians in 60m up to 19m (!). Logos and Senda Cristiana, like the Bolivian on 3310 and Colombian (Venezuelan? Nobody knows) on 4945, are recent SW-only creations and a little more mystifying because of that. 

By the way, I mentioned recently that the SDR in Lima was useless--tonight it's not bad (16db, not good but not useless single digits) and the 3 active Peruvians are coming in very well.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NQC on April 13, 2025, 1058 UTC
Hey N2AVH,

Just out of curiosity  ( and not that I will probably  copy ever  them direct), what were the names and  frequencies of the Peruvians you heard on the Lima SDR ?

de NQC
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on April 13, 2025, 2100 UTC
4775 Radio Tarma, 4810 Radio Logos, 4820 Radio Senda Cristiana.  I have heard all of them on local-to-me SDRs (I no longer have a real OTA setup) so I know they can make it into the US, but maybe not strong enough to ID except by comparison to a closer SDR. (Same for the Bolivian on 3310, radio Mosoj Chaski)  Logos is the weaker one and usually in North America there's a ute on 4810 so you have to use the lower sideband. 
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NQC on April 14, 2025, 1536 UTC
Hey N2AVH,

Thanks for the info. The  published (supposed  )  listings for tropical,  are sometimes ( or often) old and /or inaccurate ( same things goes for Cuba on the  regular AM broadcast band).

 It's  really  useful and nice to get actual updated ("live" ) listings from someone.

Once upon a time I had an AWESOME listening capability (Icom R-70, R-71a, IC -735,etc, etc  -  big roof top antennas, blah, blah.All long gone . How the "mighty" hath fallen :'().
 
I am now limping along with a "well  built" but INDOOR "40 M  1/4 wave "  square   and a deluge of QRM. My Dx440 and 803a ( which are all I have left )are "good" receivers. But obviously NOT   anywhere close to what I used to have.These rigs have a "BFO" , but no separate filters . When tuning SSB they are kind of pain to use. On   exalted  carrier for  AM they  completely fall flat and are essentially useless- I do MUCH better in AM. For how little is left on HF I have yet bothered to try an inline trap. I am probably 90% on the AM broadcast band now digging out what I can.

I really miss the PBT, notch and U/L SSB filters on the Icoms. You could do some amazing things using those controls.

I am really old school and much prefer listening to what I can  direct on my rigs . But I do  occasionally go onto SDRs at times (or even worse, streaming ) when condition are impossible or I am away from home.

Oh well, boo hoo for me  :), moving on with what I have left. I have MUCH bigger problems in my life  now than poor radio reception.

It was a good run though.

Thanks Again,

de NQC
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on April 14, 2025, 1723 UTC
My only issue with SDRs is that they don't seem to be very good receivers.  I guess that's a big issue :)
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NQC on April 14, 2025, 2146 UTC
Hey N2AVH,

SDR’s can do some absolutely astounding things at times, compared to an analog box ( ie R-71a , etc).

BUT an SDR is a lot like any radio: It’s only as good as the location , propagation and antenna allow.

And like a box, perhaps some SDR’s are not as good as others.

Additionally, at least in the early days of SDR’s , I had HEARD that the  noise of the PC itself could get into the audio.

Not sure how big an issue this was or if it could have been resolved in later versions.

And smashing this one last time, at least in MY case, if the “ receiver “ ( box OR SDR ) isn’t at MY QTH , it isn’t quite the same.

But on the UP side, you can get a lot closer to desired signals compared to your own QTH , which may simply be impossible to copy “ direct “ on your own antenna and your box or SDR.
 

I have listened to  weak
European “ traffic” on the Twente SDR when I didn’t have a PRAYER of hearing it direct.

So , kind of a mixed bag.

de NQC

Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on April 15, 2025, 2144 UTC
I agree that they're impressive, but I think that if you put me in Lima (or Twente or Westminster MD) with an FRG-7 I would have better results than those SDRs do, except for their synchronous AM upper/lower function which is very cool.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: NQC on April 16, 2025, 1326 UTC
Hey N2AVH,

Interesting.

That could be a cool  experiment to try.

de NQC
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on April 17, 2025, 1149 UTC
My only issue with SDRs is that they don't seem to be very good receivers.  I guess that's a big issue :)

It depends on the SDR.  Modern high end SDRs definitely beat "premium" analog radios - R71A, NRD-545, etc. I've had those, and one reason I got rid of my NRD-545 is that my netSDR left it in the dust and I stopped using it. If you're in a high RFI environment, it probably doesn't matter as much, you're limited by that more than the capabilities of the radio.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: n2avh on April 17, 2025, 1343 UTC
Are SDRs more susceptible to noise than the best analog receivers of yesteryear? I am always surprised at the bad s/n of the KiwiSDRs, not just posted numbers but actual listening experience. But I'm also comparing today's RF environment with long ago, and things may just be noisier now.   
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on April 17, 2025, 1832 UTC
Are SDRs more susceptible to noise than the best analog receivers of yesteryear? I am always surprised at the bad s/n of the KiwiSDRs, not just posted numbers but actual listening experience. But I'm also comparing today's RF environment with long ago, and things may just be noisier now.

No, properly designed they're probably equal to those best/classic analog receivers.  And maybe better in some cases.

The vast majority of KiwiSDR installations are... sub optimal. That's probably causing the perception that the SDRs themselves are the issue, when in reality it's something else.

I'm 99% sure what you're seeing/experiencing with KiwiSDRs are situations with:
1. A lot of local RFI
2. Poor antennas
3. Common mode feedline issues

Also, SDRs let you "see" a lot of RFI/etc. that was always there in the past, but mostly hidden with old analog receivers, unless you happened to be tuned to the right (or is that wrong) frequency.
Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: John Poet on April 18, 2025, 0252 UTC
Oh yeah... I too was a member of NASWA, reader of Frendx and sometimes SPEEDX in the latter 1970's while a young teenager, working with a Realistic DX-160 after the old Heathkit 4-tube receiver...  It was of course the FRENDX reporting on the Voice of the Voyageur pirate station which primarily influenced me and led to the creation of my pirate station 'The Crystal Ship' in 1982. 

(Also recall the controversy at the time, with FRENDX publishing "pirate" loggings while SPEEDX refused to do so, if memory serves...  This refusal by some DX clubs to publish pirate radio loggings led to the creation of the ACE, Association of Clandestine Enthusiasts, dedicated to pirate and spy loggings, in 1982-- just prior to The Crystal Ship hitting the airwaves.)

My favorite SWBC stations which were at least 'somewhat DXy' (by power level) were Radio Tahiti-- I have fond memories of listening to that on summer evenings around greyline time on 15 mhz, it actually came in pretty well, although I think the power level was only about 20kw--- and the Port Moresby PNG station on 4890  (had to get up early in the morning for that one, in the winter if I recall correctly... before dawn, when there was the largest path of darkness between our locations).

I had several other target stations which I aspired to, but could never quite pull off, all low-powered stations in the southwest Pacific:

The New Hebrides Broadcasting Service (now their country has another name which I can't recollect at the moment):
THINK I might have actually heard that one, broadcasting around 3945 khz, if memory serves---
broadcasting some kind of religious services--- but the static was so bad, I was unable to provide any solid details in my reception report, so my attempt at verification was rejected.

The Solomon Island Broadcasting Service, I think on 5020 kHz--- never had any luck with that one---

And the ultra-elusive Cook Islands Broadcasting Service--- also somewhere above 5 mHz, I think--- 5045 kHz??
never had any luck with that one, either.


On the other hand, I also submitted a reception report to the North Korean station,
and received a most awesome QSL package from them, complete with some kind of communist pin, in red--
(I still have that around here somewhere, guess I ought to dig it out again and photograph it)--

The thing about that one was, it too was very poor reception with no positive ID,
and I was not convinced myself that I had actually heard the station....
but they rewarded me most handsomely for my pitiful report!   LOL


(oh--- and THANK YOU SO MUCH for posting that FRENDX archive link---
I am going to spend some time there-- already have!!)



Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: John Poet on April 18, 2025, 0258 UTC


 it is too bad we didn't have today's technology back then when there was a ton of stations still on the air.


Simply having a receiver with a digital readout was my DREAM back then--

eventually I learned to more accurately identify my frequency on the analog receivers,
and calibrate the bandspread via the time stations and a 100 khz calibrator signal....

Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: John Poet on April 18, 2025, 0306 UTC


 "lone cries in the wilderness" type stations 


yeah... I resemble that remark!


Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: John Poet on April 18, 2025, 0318 UTC
Are SDRs more susceptible to noise than the best analog receivers of yesteryear? I am always surprised at the bad s/n of the KiwiSDRs, not just posted numbers but actual listening experience. But I'm also comparing today's RF environment with long ago, and things may just be noisier now.

No, properly designed they're probably equal to those best/classic analog receivers.  And maybe better in some cases.

The vast majority of KiwiSDR installations are... sub optimal. That's probably causing the perception that the SDRs themselves are the issue, when in reality it's something else.

I'm 99% sure what you're seeing/experiencing with KiwiSDRs are situations with:
1. A lot of local RFI
2. Poor antennas
3. Common mode feedline issues

Also, SDRs let you "see" a lot of RFI/etc. that was always there in the past, but mostly hidden with old analog receivers, unless you happened to be tuned to the right (or is that wrong) frequency.


I have been pretty happy now with reception on SDRs--- being limited to those alone, ever since coming back to the shortwave scene around last Christmas....

They have sprung up like fleas.   If one doesn't work so well, you try another....
and it is somewhat sporting to follow a pirate station's propagation across the continent,
by switching to another SDR further west, usually, when your current signal degrades...

Using online SDRs is far superior to being limited to only your own receiver and location, with its own noise, with whatever antenna you have....!

I'd almost like to put up one myself...


Yeah, ten years ago a lot of SWLs or even 'pirate listeners' felt that using online SDR receivers was somehow "cheating"---
but pirate radio stations are by definition "low-power" and thus good DX targets---
and I'd just as soon hear what they have to say as well as I can, from whatever receiver location---
especially since I no longer own a decent receiver, at the moment!     LOL

Many worldwide SDR receivers:
http://rx.linkfanel.net/


(Chris, of course your 'skyloop' SDR receiver remains one of my favorites--
but sometimes I can't get on it, and sometimes it seems it is just too far east! LOL but thanks for those!)




Title: Re: Good old days
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on April 18, 2025, 1338 UTC
(Chris, of course your 'skyloop' SDR receiver remains one of my favorites--
but sometimes I can't get on it, and sometimes it seems it is just too far east! LOL but thanks for those!)

Thanks!

Right now, the KiwiSDR listed as using the 500 ft northeast beverage is actually connected to the sky loop also, as I have been having some intermittent issues with the feedline that I have been unable to pin down: http://sdr.hfunderground.com:8076/

It's still listed as connected to the Beverage, but that's a lie  ;D  If I can't easily resolve the issue, I'll change the listed antenna until I am able to fix it.