HFU HF Underground
General Category => Huh? => Topic started by: ka1iic on October 19, 2014, 0020 UTC
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For some reason I don't understand why folks think that spy transmissions must be out side of an amateur band...
Think about it... if you wanted to 'hide' a transmission' say in CW... where would be the best place to hide it....?
CW is, let's face it, old tech, so if you wanted to 'hide' it what better place than in an amateur radio band.?
As I said on another board... if you want to hide a tree... hide it in the forest...
That doesn't take a hell of a lot of logic to understand... or maybe I am so far twisted that I don't get it...
But... I think I have it right.... even SSB can be 'hidden' within an amateur band so it wouldn't bring much attention...
If any of you folks think I am wrong then please sound your voices loud and let me know...
But understand, how many of you/us/me/etc know languages to the point where we can be sure. I have heard so many different languages using "K" or "W" or "A" callsigns that are using different languages who/whom can be sure?
Understand I am NOT trying to invoke paranoia but just saying... do You Know For Sure?
Please give me feedback... Don't let me sound off without an amount of rebuttal... Let me hear your ideas on this.
Respectfully yours,
V. G. Werber KA1IIC/8
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The Mossad had a spy at very high level in the Syrian government in the early/ mid 60's. How did they communicate with him? A low power cw transmitter. He sent messages on the edge of one of Radio Damascus' MW frequencies sidebands.
R. Damascus ran a few hundred kW and swamped everything in the region of the frequencies they used. The Syrian military couldn't hear the spy's QRP cw signal nestled beside that flamethrower.
The operation ran for nearly a decade, but the spy was finally df'ed and hanged
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For some reason I don't understand why folks think that spy transmissions must be out side of an amateur band...
Who thinks such transmission must be outside the ham bands? I often see known spy numbers transmissions inside the ham bands.
Clandestine transmissions could, and are, found anyplace within the spectrum.
If you are talking about clandestines masquerading as ham traffic, that is a different matter.
Think about it... if you wanted to 'hide' a transmission' say in CW... where would be the best place to hide it....?
CW is, let's face it, old tech, so if you wanted to 'hide' it what better place than in an amateur radio band.?
As I said on another board... if you want to hide a tree... hide it in the forest...
The CW sections of the ham bands are too narrow and constrained. When an unusual transmission occurs in the area it is pretty sure someone will notice it. Now, will anything be done about it? That is a different question. But if it is noticed that proves it can be noticed.
CW is relatively easy to machine monitor, multiple transmissions can be easily monitored and demodulated, take for example CW Skimmer. How difficult do you think it would be for an intelligence asset to develop such a technique that could specifically look for unusual or outlier traffic?
Going back to numbers traffic, I have seen known CW numbers stations inside ham bands, and it took very little effort to determine they were “different” from the surrounding ham traffic. Even without monitoring the exact traffic the visual differences on the waterfall (visually longer characters, all being numbers) were noticeable.
That doesn't take a hell of a lot of logic to understand... or maybe I am so far twisted that I don't get it...
But... I think I have it right.... even SSB can be 'hidden' within an amateur band so it wouldn't bring much attention...
If any of you folks think I am wrong then please sound your voices loud and let me know...
But understand, how many of you/us/me/etc know languages to the point where we can be sure. I have heard so many different languages using "K" or "W" or "A" callsigns that are using different languages who/whom can be sure?
Using unusual languages among anticipated or known languages is a sure way to draw attention, in my opinion. When I hear an unusual language on the ham bands I make SURE to listen for a bit, just to see what it is. Again going back to security apparatuses, things that stand out get noticed, and it is pretty easy (at military / government funding levels) to design monitoring software to queue on signals that do not match patterns, including odd languages.
Either hide it in plain sight with little or nothing to differentiate it from its fellow traffic (trying to mimic the other traffic very closely), or find security through obscurity, using frequencies and modes in locations that are not anticipated or obscured by other things. The example presented, CW in a MW BC station sideband, is pretty much what I am talking about. Maybe a digital signal in the sideband of a DTV signal, a PSK signal in the sideband of an FM BC signal, etc.
30 years ago such activity would have been less likely to be noticed. Even at the military / government levels wide band spectral displays and waterfalls were not in common use (although they were available, I used them as early as 35+ years ago) for monitoring receivers. Now, however, they are the norm. Once someone with those assets are looking for you they will find you…period. It is just a matter of how actively they are looking.
T!
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http://spellout.org/alphabetInfo?alphabet=ru-morse
Take a beginner and intermediate Russian language course. Make initial contact. As long as there is no criminal intent you can go on and on and on communicating with your Russian handler.Surprises! Fruits of the crime go to FBI! Never make use of the fruits of the crime.
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The Mossad had a spy at very high level in the Syrian government in the early/ mid 60's. How did they communicate with him? A low power cw transmitter. He sent messages on the edge of one of Radio Damascus' MW frequencies sidebands.
R. Damascus ran a few hundred kW and swamped everything in the region of the frequencies they used. The Syrian military couldn't hear the spy's QRP cw signal nestled beside that flamethrower.
The operation ran for nearly a decade, but the spy was finally df'ed and hanged
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6aY_52kiQM
Because the spy lived beside the Syrian military camp. Nobody would suspect that he had a transmitter until he was caught while damage on Syria was done. Watch, THE IMPOSSIBLE SPY.
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I had a book about the guy in my teens, but it's long gone. He was about as deep as you can get as a spy.
I understand it was RFI from his transmitter in his apartment building that got him noticed. Something about a radio saavy Syrian officer who lived in the building that realized the occasional RFI messing up his television was CW, if I recall correctly.
When the spy started sending code that final night, it was just a matter of going door to door. He knew the Syrians were on to him, but he did his duty.
I'll have to check out that film, thanks!