HFU HF Underground
General Category => General Radio Discussion => Topic started by: PRO2006 on August 14, 2018, 0055 UTC
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Etiquette question-
Is it OK to log from another's SDR? Until tonight I have only logged from my receiver. I might go to another SDR to listen to a show but not log it. The propagation normally peaks later here so we miss a lot on our QTH receivers.
I suspect its OK as long as its mentioned being logged from somewhere else. I imagine the transmitter would want to know their coverage area.
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I do think it's necessary to list the SDR, but otherwise I'd much rather see SDR logs than none at all. The more the merrier!
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Etiquette question-
Is it OK to log from another's SDR? Until tonight I have only logged from my receiver. I might go to another SDR to listen to a show but not log it. The propagation normally peaks later here so we miss a lot on our QTH receivers.
I suspect its OK as long as its mentioned being logged from somewhere else. I imagine the transmitter would want to know their coverage area.
I do it all the time. Being out west at a time when low SFI is forcing eastern based pirates to transmit in the day, I'd hear very little if I didn't hop on some SDRs in their range. As Andrew says, make sure to say that that's where you're listening. I believed I've even gotten QSL's from a couple based on remote SDR loggings, although who and when aren't coming immediately to mind. (I don't submit reports based on remote SDR logs, but sometimes they QSL based on HFU posts.)
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As ex-pirate I'm torn on it. I like to know how the signal is sounding at the listener's home location. As I've noticed most of the listeners here give both, I've got no problem with you searching around for it the best sounding SDR that's receiving it, if you list conditions in both places. Using nothing but a remote SDR? It's a bit like cheating.
All you would have to say for it to be kosher for me, is "Nothing here, S-7 on the _____ SDR."
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Agreed, I think it's fine to log reception from remote SDRs, as long as you clearly indicate you've done so, and which SDR was used.
Speaking of logs in general... folks may also want to make sure their posting signature here shows their location, so other listeners know where they are located, and whether or not they might possibly be able to hear the station as well. You don't have to list your exact city if you don't want to, even a rough location such as state, region, etc. You can do this by going to the Profile menu at the top, and select Forum Profile.
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Personally I have no problem with people submitting reception reports using remote SDR's. It is a welcome courtesy to note it in the report log, along with your and the receiver's location.
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I'm probably going to get some negative feedback for this but I agree with Pigmeat - listening to anything on SW is an art that is based on a receiver, antenna, propagation and usually some luck. To me, that's the hobby right there. Using a remote receiver that perhaps has a better antenna, and is located in an area favoring better propagation, has lower QRM, etc is like listening to an Internet stream of a broadcaster rather than "catching" them on the equipment you have & at the location you are at with all the warts. Maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon.....
I will now shut up.
FPE
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I'm probably going to get some negative feedback for this but I agree with Pigmeat - listening to anything on SW is an art that is based on a receiver, antenna, propagation and usually some luck. To me, that's the hobby right there. Using a remote receiver that perhaps has a better antenna, and is located in an area favoring better propagation, has lower QRM, etc is like listening to an Internet stream of a broadcaster rather than "catching" them on the equipment you have & at the location you are at with all the warts. Maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon.....
I will now shut up.
FPE
I don't wish you to feel that this is negative feedback, nor do I want you to change your mind and agree with me. But I do have to disagree that using a remote online SDR is like streaming the audio, because at the end of the day you're still using the things you mention - a receiver, an antenna, propagation, and some luck. Though perhaps you're hedging your bets on the last one. With a remote SDR, you still get everything that comes with the shortwave experience - QRM, QSB, chance, all the things that an internet stream shouldn't have and makes the SWL experience what it is. I definitely want to hear things on my own equipment in my own QTH and will do so first, but especially at a time when solar minimum is deep, pirates and SWBC'ers are disappearing, and RFI is growing exponentially, remote SDR's help alleviate the frustration of not being able to hear what's still out there. Just my 2¢
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All good input, thanks. For me personally there has been that line there since I got on the forum to only log from my gear. It's more challenging to improve my setup and rewarding that its coming from my receiver. I will stay logging on my receiver for now. I can usually find the show via SDR if someone is already logging it (so I am not missing out!).
There are some good points all around- if more people logged via other SDRs we might be hearing more pirates by having more ears and eyes on more receivers.
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If I privateered the airwaves I'd be happy to have any reception reports from near or far rx, but it is nice to know how one is getting out.
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I always assumed that the point of broadcasting was to get people to listen to you. ;)
If you log via rSDR then it should be noted as such.
If you can hear a station at home and via rSDR then that becomes two good propagation data points that a broadcaster could use to determine how their signal is getting out. I would think that knowing the general location of both reception points would be useful.
It is like going to the coast to listen to transoceanic MW... you are moving the station physically vs. moving it virtually as you would for a rSDR.
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It is like going to the coast to listen to transoceanic MW... you are moving the station physically vs. moving it virtually as you would for a rSDR.
This is a useful perspective. No one seems to mind if listeners go on a dxpedition. What if you have a cabin in the woods, can you go there to listen? What if you put your SDR in the cabin online, so you can listen from you home? What if you let other people use the SDR? As long as you're clear about where you're listening from and what equipment you are using, I would think the reception report is valid and useful to the broadcaster. Now, it's another story if you "cheat" and use a remote SDR while claiming to be listening from your home.
I suspect that general conventions as to what is acceptable change over time. I'm reminded of when a certain DXer complained that listening to SDR recordings didn't count, presumably because you were not listening live? But in the past it was very common to set up a tape recorder at night, then check in the morning to see if that distant station came in at 0800 UTC. Or maybe it didn't count because the radio did not have knobs. :D
I run overnight SDR recordings to catch things that I would not hear because I can't stay awake all night in front of the radio. And I often pick up transmissions that no one else has logged. I'd like to think the operators are happy knowing that at least someone heard their show.
Perhaps there are no firm rules. In the end, it's up to each listener to decide what they want to do, and each station to decide what they want to QSL.
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One additional point...
Some people are restricted as to what kind of station they have. Between antenna, monetary, and spousal restrictions, sometimes you can't put up a receiving station that could hear something less than 50kW.
I have introduced many people to SW listening by showing them rSDR websites. They listen because rSDRs exist since most of these people aren't able to set up a station at home. Pirate stations are much more interesting to them than listening to some power house commercial station and that keeps them going online to catch them.
And then I show them number stations and their curiosity really gets the best of them. :D
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I verify SDR loggings all the time, no issues with that, but I do like to know that's what they are, and where the receiver was located.
We now have an habitual Japanese listener who uses US-based SDRs.
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you know when you have a good and interesting show, its when people want to listen to it through a remote receiver when they cant at their own location for whatever reason it may be.
i do this all the time because the pirates i want to listen to, dont normally come in strong enough on my own receiver for pleasurable and enjoyable listening.
even though some online SDR's dont exactly provide the same fidelity in sound, its still better than nothing at all and it does sound pretty great overall through a very good sound system.
when i am listening and not broadcasting, its not just about "logging" pirates to me, its about listening to them and providing feedback about their program especially when their programming is interesting and good.
if this hobby was all and only about "logging" pirates, then there would be no need for those of us to take our time to create the unique and interesting programming content, it would be easier to just transmit a carrier with a looped station ID.
as a pirate myself, im more interested in the programming and content feedback (whether i create my own content or relay it) as well as the quality of the sound than how well the signal reaches a particular area, i can use an online SDR to gauge my signal strength if i wanted to find that out as there so many of them available now in many different locations (no pun intended to the hobbyists).
Take RFW for example, his unique programming was so interesting and good (and hysterically funny) that folks would listen to his mixlr live stream when they couldnt receive his broadcast locally - i miss those days relaying his live broadcast, those were the real fun days at 5150Khz.
if anything, online SDR's have made it easier for me to listen to some of my favorite pirates.
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I agree with pigmeat and fpeconsultant that logging an SDR reception from a remote location isn't really the same as logging it on your own hardware and qth, but that being said. I think it is totally valid and respectable if you give credit to whose station you are using to receive. as many have said, in essence. half of something is better than nothing.
I don't mean any disrespect to those who do this either. when I lived in a tiny studio apartment on the bottom floor, I couldnt do a whole lot else.
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The remote sdrs that kindhearted souls are making available to all are a godsend.