HFU HF Underground
Technical Topics => SDR - Software Defined Radio => Topic started by: Pigmeat on January 15, 2013, 1516 UTC
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The coffers of the vast Pigmeat fortune are overflowing. What do you SDR mavens reccomend in the 300-600 dollar range?
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My choice for that price range would be the RF Space SDR-IQ.
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Hi i use the Rfspace SDR-IQ to monitor hf aircraft bands excellent receiver hooked up to a Wellbrook-ALA1530 active loop..
Regards Lino..
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Ditto here; the SDR-IQ has exceeded my expectations in all respects.
I would also recommend the following software (free). I find this to be an extremely productive environment for the SDR-IQ. A bit of a learning curve with little documentation, but well worth the effort.
http://sdr-radio.com/
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Thanks for the info.
Now to introduce our moderator to the dark side of radio.
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Now to introduce our moderator to the dark side of radio.
I was gonna say - we should at least hear his respected opinion on such matters. ;D
Z
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SDR-IQ has been a winner here; learning curve initially only with the supplied software which was still pretty easy. Easier yet, as Chris can attest, is the CuteSDR opensource project; once you get ramped up, for windows you'll have SDR-Radio.com's excellent, feature-rich software (development from the author Ham Radio Deluxe).
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This is starting to look like a landslide.
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Can the SDR-IQ record chunks of spectrum like the Perseus? When I get an SDR, I want it for recording ranges overnight or when I'm away from home...oh and I think it'd be really handy for hearing the Irish church pirates on the CB band.
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Can the SDR-IQ record chunks of spectrum like the Perseus? When I get an SDR, I want it for recording ranges overnight or when I'm away from home...oh and I think it'd be really handy for hearing the Irish church pirates on the CB band.
Yes, you can do that either with the SpectraVue software that comes with it, or with the free program SdrDx, which is for both Windows and Mac OS X. Sorry Fansome, no QNX port.
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Can the SDR-IQ record chunks of spectrum like the Perseus? When I get an SDR, I want it for recording ranges overnight or when I'm away from home...oh and I think it'd be really handy for hearing the Irish church pirates on the CB band.
To the OP, you might want to look at the Afedri SDR, approximately the same performance as the SDR-IQ but half the price. Not to mention if you opt to communicate via Enet instead of USB it has a wider bandwidth. With that said, I have couple of SDR-IQs here, and they are very solid performers, and well supported in software. The Afedri SDR might be as good, but is probably not as plug-and-play as the SDR-IQ.
AY, yes, pretty much every "SDR" on the market can record a chunk of bandwidth. The width of that chunk varies with the exact model. Even though the WinRadio G3XX series (not to be confused with the G3XDDC series) is advertised as an SDR and meets the technical description as such I do not consider them "SDRs" as the hobby community has come to know, primarily because of their limited record bandwidth (less than 25 kHz).
Some currently marketed SDRs and widths (not complete list by any stretch of the imagination), the value listed is the maximum spectrum recordable bandwidth, pretty much all of them will record narrower if you want to save hard drive space. This list is only SDRs with HF coverage, and does not include VHF only and up SDRs, but does include things that do HF and VHF and up. The rough order is low to high price:
SoftRock Ensemble II Up to 192 kHz, depends on your sound card specs
Various other soundcard SDRs Up to 192 kHz, depending on soundcard
Afedri SDR 230 kHz (USB connection), 1.2 MHz (network connection)
SDR-IQ 190 kHz
WinRadio G31DDC Excalibur 2 MHz
QS1R 2 MHz
Perseus 1.6 MHz
Net-SDR 2 MHz
WinRdaio G33DDC Excalibur Pro 4 MHz
SDR-IP 2 MHz
AOR AR2300 (with IQ option) 1 MHz
WinRadio G39DDC Excelsior 2 MHz (x2)
AOR AR5001D (with IQ option) 1 MHz
AOR AR Alpha 1 MHz
As a note, sound card SDRs are a very low cost option, the bang for buck is just hard to beat. However they are not as good a performer as the DDC (pretty much everything not soundcard) SDRs are.
T!
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Chris & Token: Thanks for the comments! That helps a lot. I was looking at reviews last night & saw a lot of positives on the SDR-IQ, but also saw a number of people who said that it was much noisier than the typical receiver. Do many of these receivers stack up well against the older contingent of top-end hobby-level radios (e.g., R-8, R-5000, ICR-71, NRD-525)?
Thanks again!
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Chris & Token: Thanks for the comments! That helps a lot. I was looking at reviews last night & saw a lot of positives on the SDR-IQ, but also saw a number of people who said that it was much noisier than the typical receiver. Do many of these receivers stack up well against the older contingent of top-end hobby-level radios (e.g., R-8, R-5000, ICR-71, NRD-525)?
Thanks again!
The Perseus and especially the Excalibur will compete favorably with any of the older top end hobby level radios, indeed any hobby level radio from any time period. Since getting my Excalibur I only turn on the R71, R75, or the NRD-525 when I need another freq watched, in fact the R71 and -525 are not even on my primary listening bench anymore, being back in the radio room instead (my primary listening area is in the living room). I have used the Net-SDR also and find it very good, but have no idea how it technically compares, I did not use it on my own bench next to my other equipment.
In my opinion I think the Excalibur is better than the Perseus, and yes I do have both of them. They are side-by side here but I use the Excalibur daily, and I just leave the Perseus on my remote node for other people to use. I use the SDR-IQ's for watching spot freqs and doing scheduled recordings,a nd one of them stays online 24/7 for other people to use as a remote. The Excalibur Pro (G33DDC) is even better than the Excalibur (G31DDC), but is almost twice the price. Again my opinion, but unless you need remote control operation the Excalibur or the Excalibur Pro is the best hobby RX, SDR or traditional, on the market today. If you need or want remote operation then the Perseus or the Net-SDR / SDR-IP might be the best choice, possibly not quite as good as the Excalibur (that could be argued in either direction), but the Excal cannot be remoted. The Excalibur Pro can be remoted, but that is a $200 option.
If you want to see how the numbers stack up (for RX performance) a good resource is the Sherwood Engineering table of measurements:
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html
Note that not everything is on there, and the table is sorted on 3rd order narrow spaced dynamic range, a good indicator but not the only thing that makes a receiver good. The list is long and well done, but naturally not complete, every radio just cannot be on it. Note that the Excalibur is not on the list, and neither are any of the RFSpace pieces of hardware, they have not been tested. But, the Perseus is on the list, and you can see that it compares well. And, as I said, the Excalibur is even better, in my opinion as well as in several measurable specifications.
As for the SDR-IQ and noise, it is a low cost option so it is not a top performer. It still performs well but one of the areas it is a little lacking is a higher noise floor than the more expensive units. This is not bad at all, just not as “good”. If you are talking about noise in the audio that is going to depend a bit on your computers sound setup. I have seen people complain about the audio not sounding good, maybe being sharp and harsh, but then hearing another SDR-IQ and saying that one sounds good. The speakers and sound card in your computer will shape the sound, so not every installation will sound the same. A good set of speakers / headphones will make it sound better, and a low end sound card can kill it.
I would have to say that in general I find the SDRs to NOT have as good sound as a good traditional RX. If sound quality is your driving criteria you might not be as happy with an SDR.
If noise floor is the driver for you then the SDR-IQ is not going to be great, while the better SDR units will be good. The Excalibur has a noise floor of about –131 dBm, the Excalibur Pro about –135 dBm (both from my own measurements, but in line with WinRadios published performance figures). The Perseus is a bit worse than this, at about –125 to –127 dBm. The R5000 has a noise floor of about –131 dBm (Sherwood list), the R-71A has a noise floor of about –135 dBm (Sherwood list), the Drake R8 is about –131 dBm (Sherwood list), and the NRD-525 is about –132 dBm (Sherwood list). All of these radios will show a noise floor that is below the average ambient noise at almost any listening location.
The Excalibur (G31DDC) sensitivity is also in line with most of those radios, and the Excalibur Pro (G33DDC) is more sensitive than the G31DDC, equaling or beating the best of the traditional radios above. The Perseus will have the worst sensitivity of the bunch listed, but not bad. The SDR-IQ will be worse than the Perseus in pretty much every category, but it is also about half the price.
In performance the upper end SDRs are great, better than any hobby grade RX on the market today and probably as good as hobby grade RX’s have ever been, but SDR operation is not for everyone. Some people do not want to be tied to a computer or an operating system that might not be usable in 15 years. Speaking of computers, they can be noise sources. Some users do have to track down and eliminate noise sources, including sometimes hard to isolate computer noise. I am fortunate, this has not been a real issue for me, I have had to do very little, almost nothing, to deal with it, but I have seen people frustrated by it.
T!
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Man, what a great thread!
I'll eventually have to go the SDR route when my TT gives up the ghost, but this is good info for when that day comes.
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I agree with Token. Sometimes I think he leaves the Perseus up for me since I log into his sever daily and for long periods (thanks T)...lol... Anyhow I do not own the Excalibur, but own the Perseus which I find to be an excellent receiver. I find Token is an excellent source of SDR info given what he owns and experience. As far as received audio I guess that more or less depends and after tailoring my sound system audio from the Perseus is excellent! Lets just say I have absolutely no regrets going the way of an SDR and especially the higher end versions. I could never look back unless forced. My HAM and alternate knobed receiver gear sit unused except when I feel like creating some of my own RF. Took me some time to understand and try an SDR but in the end Kilokat convinced me with his experiences and videos. Getting over a high end knob radio was tough I admit. But hell now I'm thinking "what was I waiting for" :)
Using equipment in the field is another story, but for arm-chair listening it's SDR or bust...............
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I regularly record the 43 meter band (6800-7000 kHz) overnight (and all day on weekends). I'll play back the recordings in the morning, looking for things. This lets me pick up many transmissions that I would otherwise miss, especially very short ones. I still have a radio with knobs (NRD 545) that I use for general tuning around, although I find myself using it less and less.
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How much HD space does a night of recording with the sdr-iq take up?
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How much HD space does a night of recording with the sdr-iq take up?
You can calculate the amount of storage:
First, what is the bandwidth? In my case 200 kHz. Note that the actual data rate is typically about 25% higher (check your SDR setup), it's 250 kHz for mine. So that means there's 256k sets of data written per second. The recording files are I/Q data, so there's two values written, and they are 16 bits, or two bytes each, so that's 4 bytes total. (Again, check your SDR setup, some write 24 bit data, which means 6 bytes per second). So doing the math, 256k * 4 = 1024k or 1 MB per second.
There's 3,600 seconds in an hour, so that's 3600MB or 3.6 GB an hour. A 12 hour recording is 43.2 GB, on weekends and holidays I usually run all day long.
The maximum data rate of the SDR-IQ is a little less (around 192 kHz from memory). Also, you can record a smaller segment of the band.
After buying an SDR, the next step is to buy another hard drive :-) In my case I have an external 3 TB firewire drive. I keep recording files for a few weeks (in case I need to go back to check something), then start deleting them.
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How many tubes does it have?!
I can't quite wrap my head around this stuff.
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Hey, even I'm outdated now days - I can only 'see' one frequency at a time!
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Has anyone used the Andrus MK1.5? Looks like an interesting SDR to my untrained eye:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SDR-MK1-5-Radio-Andrus-Shortwave-Receiver-with-Network-Interface-/261166823767?pt=US_Portable_AM_FM_Radios&hash=item3ccec17957
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New to the board but not the hobby. ;D
Agree with Token re Winradio Excalibur. I have had one for about 3 years and have never had a radio pass through my shack that could best the Excalibur on weak signal retrieval. Equal it sometimes, maybe but never beat it. That includes Drake R-8, JRC-535, Icom R75, Yaesu FT-1000MP, Icom 756Pro3, Kenwood TS-940, Drake R7. I'm not saying there aren't any out there that could (maybe a vintage Racal or WJ or a state-of-the-art transceiver) just that I haven't had one in my shack in the 3 years I have owned the Excalibur. Now as far as audio goes, I have it running through a 31 band EQ into a pretty good Yamaha receiver and a very good soundcard. My other hobby is high-end audio so I think I have a pretty good ear and believe I have gotten out most of the digital artifacts from the Excalibur. That being said it's still sounds slightly digitally like an older generation CD player and not the equal of the best analog radios.
73,
Ian
Boynton Beach, Florida :)
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Just talked to Gerry at SSB Electronics this morning and they are running a special til the end of the month on Perseuses (Perseii, plural ???)
Get this... $949.00
nice price, eh ?
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Way late to this party...but wondering what one could do with an array of $600 worth of $20 Rtl-sdrs.....(!)