HFU HF Underground
General Category => Huh? => Topic started by: Shortwave_Listener on April 24, 2022, 2025 UTC
-
I notice that the MW Pirate loggings section is almost completely deserted. Is there just little interest in MW pirates? I know MW pirates are rare in the Americas but I hear tons of them on European kiwiSDR’s. I think they are interesting and relatively unexplored compared to SW pirates. There is always lots active as well. For example right now I am listening with the SDR Plosnk kiwiSDR in Poland and there are 13 MW pirates from 1600-1800 kHz. It seems they almost always appear in this frequency range. They usually don’t follow the 9 kHz frequency steps and sometimes they don’t follow the 10 kHz frequency steps either. Most are usually weak, probably because the antennas needed from ideal operation on this band are huge, so most are probably using inefficient antennas. I also wonder who the audience for these stations are. Being above the European MW band and on odd frequencies most regular consumer radios probably can’t tune them, and there seems to be little hobby interest. I assume these are hobby stations like most shortwave pirates? Most seem to be from Greece.
Edit: Just to clarify, I was trying to ask more why so few people listen to them then why there are few North America MW pirates. For transmitting you need larger antenna, signals don’t go as far, noise is higher, and you are probably more likely to get caught. I fully understand that. My question was supposed to be more why not many people listen to the many European MW pirates. I have noticed there are lots of European stations that don’t seem to mind the vast limitations of the MW band. It just seems that far fewer are logged than are on air.
-
Though a non-pirate I still have a thought or two: I think it was a couple weeks ago well after sunset going thru the 540-1700 am band...sooo many signals heard on this or that individual "channel" @ Once... who the Hell would wanna compete with that? Maybe, I said maybe because of the competition, $$$ , this am band is prone to more, uh, policing, maybe? As in FCC.
I do recall a posting of Undercover Radio somewhere near 1710am +/- not too long ago. But that's rare. My 2 cents. 8)
-
Those European pirates are free from interference as the AM band only goes up to 1602 kHz there. Yes, the AM band can be a total mess at night here. The “Local” (class C) frequencies (1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450, and 1490) are by far the worst. Often they have probably a dozen or more stations on the same channel with none of them understandable. Those stations use 250 watts to 1 KW with non-directional antennas.
-
The MW pirate section is mostly used for North American pirates, European pirates tend to get logged in the European pirates board, with shortwave pirates.
That said, NAm MW pirate activity seems to be far lower than European, at least when it comes to higher power pirates, and mostly concentrated in the winter months, when propagation is better and noise levels lower. I do try to record the 1610-1760 kHz band weekend nights, and occasionally bag one, but not recently, again likely due to the seasonal nature of activity.
In the winter I am able to hear the Greek pirates in the 17xx kHz range. They run high power of course, but still nice to hear them across the pond.
That said, there are a fairly large number of low power MW pirates in the US. There is one not too far from me on 1620 AM for example (I won't say where I think it is, other than probably 5 or 10 miles away). I am not sure if it is a real "pirate" or a "not quite legal Part 15" setup - maybe something more than 100 mW and/or maybe more than a 3 meter antenna. But certainly not high power.
-
The other thing is that not that many people today have the real estate to string up a +100ft antenna. And, for gorilla tactics of pirating, loading up a portable station to take out in the middle of nowhere, build, test, broadcast for a couple hours on around 20W on 3, 4, 5, 6, 7MHz, can get the job done of getting you out there. Then, tear down and get out. With MW, not as easy. And as Chris mentioned, winter, when the noise levels are lower, and holidays are around, are pretty much going to be the norm for MW pirates in North America. With that said, there still may be some neat catches to get over here. 20 years ago, it was reported that there was a station on 1710kHz from an Indian Reservation that I even caught on a car stereo, then logged in to The ACE. So, you just never know.
-
A friend in Iowa who had a 6 watt ambc pirate sta (think this was a phono setup like in ye olden dayes) when he was a wee pirate. He and a friend ran some wire along the tops of trees for a few hundred yards in a wooded lot behind his house, they were heard in Canada. Never underestimate a kid dumb enough to climb several tall trees with a spool of wire, he's now an engineer at a tv sta. Hi John if you read this.
-
Hi John if you read this.
Unfortunately moi ain't high lately...wish i was... ::)
-
Yes, this band in Europe is very active. In the afternoon there are many stations from the Netherlands, Greece and Serbia. They are profiled at their own country's listeners and speak only the national language. Above 1700kHz, the Russians sometimes make a chat, but I think they are "bangs" of former hams,
they talk about technique and they don't play music.
Scandinavian WX networks (10 kW) operate in the band.
Pirate stations avoid their channels and try to keep a safe distance from other broadcasters.
-
The other thing is that not that many people today have the real estate to string up a +100ft antenna.
^THIS!
~275' for an AM half-wave dipole at the top of the MW BCB band, and for most realistic deployments, a horizontal MW antenna is going to be so low as to encounter significant ground losses along with largely being a cloud warmer with what power it does radiate upwards.
There is the vertical route, but that also typically means serious loading to get a reasonably workable deployment, plus it is also dealing with ground losses unless deploying numerous ground radials or quarter-wave tuned elevated radials. Elevated radials can be loaded as well, but that typically incurs even further losses.
Now factor in the typical MW noise floor these days, plus how many even general radio enthusiasts have truly decent MW antennas optimized for weak-signal reception these days?
It is akin to an amateur doing 160m mobile. Even with a few hundred watts into an extremely-loaded vertical, the often resulting QRPp experience can be an exercise in patience.... or frustration, and that is on an band with (hopefully) other active participants having (again, hopefully) decent antennas for receiving.
-
The other thing is that not that many people today have the real estate to string up a +100ft antenna.
^THIS!
~275' for an AM half-wave dipole at the top of the MW BCB band, and for most realistic deployments, a horizontal MW antenna is going to be so low as to encounter significant ground losses along with largely being a cloud warmer with what power it does radiate upwards.
There is the vertical route, but that also typically means serious loading to get a reasonably workable deployment, plus it is also dealing with ground losses unless deploying numerous ground radials or quarter-wave tuned elevated radials. Elevated radials can be loaded as well, but that typically incurs even further losses.
Now factor in the typical MW noise floor these days, plus how many even general radio enthusiasts have truly decent MW antennas optimized for weak-signal reception these days?
It is akin to an amateur doing 160m mobile. Even with a few hundred watts into an extremely-loaded vertical, the often resulting QRPp experience can be an exercise in patience.... or frustration, and that is on an band with (hopefully) other active participants having (again, hopefully) decent antennas for receiving.
Yup, that's pretty much my experience. That said, a 50' vertical with 8 140' radials works OK on 1720KHz or so with reasonable performance. If you want to throw power at it though the loading coil will have to be very large. The numbers I ran found that such a setup can expect close to 20A of base current with 1KW on the input!
Even the places I like to use have barely enough room for an antenna that size.
+-RH
-
With good S/N and distances on higher bands with low power the MW band would not interest me.
-
With good S/N and distances on higher bands with low power the MW band would not interest me.
quoted for greater justice
I agree, much easier to string out a 40m dipole with some 90 percent efficiency and privateer away with a few watts than to try to get some efficiency with a reduced size home made antenna for, say, 175m. That said, I've seen a lot of former microwave relay towers doing little to nothing in farm fields that could support, for example, some surreptitious antenna wires placed by drone or perhaps a daring climber.
Or perhaps use the towers themselves.