HFU HF Underground
Technical Topics => SDR - Software Defined Radio => Topic started by: Maxwells Daemon on March 07, 2023, 2111 UTC
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My understanding is that new KiwiSDR hardware is permanently unavailable.
Is that so? Is anyone aware of any efforts to come up with a clone or replacement?
Given its popularity and usefulness, it seems a shame for this platform to die (or at least be limited to its current stock).
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Seen on the KIWI site (or nearby) : no Kiwi build in 2022, because of components shortage. In September, the last few exemplaries were sold (beware of the resellers without real stock!). No new series in any foreseeable future.
Maybe some clones are coming, but with very short series (not many found on Internet, and 'caveat emptor' of course.
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raspberrysdr, flydogsdr
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The infamous "Fanbot 3000" was built using a RaspberryPi. "He Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned" could've cranked out thousands of SDR's had he been so inclined and taken them seriously, but as we all know, real radio's have knobs and buttons.
If you folks would have asked nicely, he might have done it as a favor, but none of you prostrated yourselves before his lawn chair at Shady Acres and asked humbly. Now there are no more Kiwi's and the Holy One has been assumed into Paradise. "Ask and you shall receive", only applied when he was stomping around on Earth and could build you something to receive with, not now. You're too late.
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Seems like neither the raspberrysdr nor the fly dog sdr units are available:(. I’m really regretting not getting a kiwi when I had the chance
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I believe many SDR manufacturers are having trouble with obtaining the semiconductors such as ADC chips. That's one of the issues that did in the KiwiSDR. John, the developer of the Kiwi, posted on the Kiwi forum some time back that he was also ready to sunset the project as he was pursuing other projects.
The "knock offs" such as the FlyDogSDR haven't been available for some time now either. Those were claimed to not perform as well as the Kiwi despite having technically better specs.
With the semiconductor shortage still catching up and growing global tensions, I wouldn't hold my breath at this moment.
The software the Kiwi user interface is based on, OpenWebRX https://www.openwebrx.de/ can be configured to work with a host of SDRs. It's not as feature packed and as easy to use as the Kiwi, but it's an option.
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John, the developer of the Kiwi, posted on the Kiwi forum some time back that he was also ready to sunset the project as he was pursuing other projects.
Which is curious because he keeps cranking out software revisions. Of course, hardware revisions have a longer timeline than software revisions.
The software the Kiwi user interface is based on, OpenWebRX https://www.openwebrx.de/ can be configured to work with a host of SDRs. It's not as feature packed.
You can say that again. For one thing, frequency resolution is lacking, IMO.
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Just two comments:
The KiwiSDR already has a pretty full set of features. Having a 1 Hz tuning and display resolution would be very welcome; things it lacks may be handled client side. Does anyone out there use the "SuperSDR" client? By taking the IQ stream, such a client can do plenty of things independently of the KiwiSDR interface. For simple things like AM / SSB / CW, the client doesn't even need the IQ stream... Since finding SuperSDR, I rarely bother with pulling up the web interface.
As to hardware, there are plenty of other ARM based single board computers which could be substituted for the Raspberry Pis. FPGAs and ADCs are out there, although not cheap, they can be found. I would not be surprised to see some sort of Kiwi-like radio appear which continues the winning recipe of SBC + ADC + FPGA + webserver. I would not be surprised if someone adapts the GPIO connection, tweaks the operating system, and puts out an ugly but performant radio with an Orange Pi SBC.
Perhaps JKS is bored and wants to move on. Okay, "See ya later and thanks for the radios." There is a funny phrase in the last chapter of KiwiSDR: 21st Century Radio for the People (https://tinyurl.com/kiwisdr01) which says something like, "Watch the clones." Of course, I could be completely wrong and the future is based on HPSDR variants.
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Having a 1 Hz tuning and display resolution would be very welcome
A 1Hz resolution is possible on the Kiwi, except that it needs to be set by the owner in the Admin interface under the "Config" tab. Would be nice if it was set by default, I have a feeling most owners don't even know about it.
(https://i95.servimg.com/u/f95/15/46/86/41/kiwi_c10.png) (https://i95.servimg.com/u/f95/15/46/86/41/1hz_re10.png)
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I use 1Hz resolution adjustment when the kiwi or receiving station is off frequency. You just enter the 1Hz digit as a user. The digit will not show up in the display but will change.
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Which is curious because he keeps cranking out software revisions.
Yeah, I should really stop. But it's tough to break the habit after 9+ years of running flat out. The other projects really need more attention than they're getting.
Parts are starting to become available again (except for one which has very unfortunately gone EOL). But now at about 2.5 times the previous cost. Can you imagine what would happen if a renewed Kiwi doubled in price? The backlash would make the effort worthless.
But parts and price are the least of the problems. I won't elaborate. But suffice it to say that restarting manufacturing/distribution is essentially impossible at this point.
Regards,
John, ZL/KF6VO
KiwiSDR
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Yeah, I should really stop.
Please don’t!
Your efforts are greatly appreciated by everyone I know.
I own literally dozens of receivers yet my Kiwi is the one I use the most. It works well and the integrated decoders are exceptionally convenient. For all it does and how well it works, I still marvel at the tiny footprint it has and how little it actually cost.
Most hams and SWLs go through their life enjoying the hobby, but contributing little. Not so for you. You’ve made a huge impact.
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Which is curious because he keeps cranking out software revisions.
Yeah, I should really stop. But it's tough to break the habit after 9+ years of running flat out. The other projects really need more attention than they're getting.
Parts are starting to become available again (except for one which has very unfortunately gone EOL). But now at about 2.5 times the previous cost. Can you imagine what would happen if a renewed Kiwi doubled in price? The backlash would make the effort worthless.
But parts and price are the least of the problems. I won't elaborate. But suffice it to say that restarting manufacturing/distribution is essentially impossible at this point.
Regards,
John, ZL/KF6VO
KiwiSDR
That's very unfortunate news, John. But as with the others, I want to thank you very much for all your hard work developing and maintaining the KiwiSDR. There's five online here, it used to be more until several were damaged in a freak storm (disconnected from antennas, but still powered, and my nextdoor neighbor's house took a direct lightning strike, you can figure out the rest. Lots of electronic stuff died that day).
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Having a 1 Hz tuning and display resolution would be very welcome
A 1Hz resolution is possible on the Kiwi, except that it needs to be set by the owner in the Admin interface under the "Config" tab. Would be nice if it was set by default, I have a feeling most owners don't even know about it.
I noticed that about a year ago (maybe more?) the default was changed from 1 Hz display resolution to 10 Hz. Only a few owners have changed it to 1 Hz, in my experience.
I use 1Hz resolution adjustment when the kiwi or receiving station is off frequency. You just enter the 1Hz digit as a user. The digit will not show up in the display but will change.
Hmmm... I suspected that but I never had the low-end audio fidelity to sense 1 through 9 Hz beat tones and couldn't prove it :D
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With my transmitter bandwidth down to 10Hz I can hear a non GPS frequency locked kiwi off by a few hertz when monitoring my station and use headphones that have a very good low end responsive. Even without a wide bandwidth transmitter If you listen in IQ mode you can hear the zero beat drift with stereo headphones if not exactly on frequency.
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Yeah, definitely need IQ mode. I'm using headphones right now and tried it. I have been able to get within +/-3 Hz of the "true" center (as judged by the SAM detector) before I can't hear or sense it beating anymore.
In any case, yes, it does respond to the Hertz position changing, even though that is not reflected in the display. You are right. 8)
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Nice. I am glad you tried it. I mostly listen to my transmitter in IQ mode. I find it sounds better because in sideband the kiwi has preemphasis. It is not needed on my transmitter since I run preemphasis.
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I have added a new URL parameter "1hz" which will be available in the next release (v1.620). So for a Kiwi where you don't have admin privileges you can say something like random_kiwi:8073/?1hz or random_kiwi:8073/?other URL params&1hz
Yes, there should be something in the user interface for this. But any changes to the UI are waiting for a major redesign. This URL change took me about 10 minutes to implement and test.
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John, thanks for all the work you're still putting into these radios.
Can you imagine what would happen if a renewed Kiwi doubled in price? The backlash would make the effort worthless.
You'd be surprised. A member on another forum made me multiple offers for my Kiwi that went well over double what I paid for it. That's for a (now well used) unit that has been powered up 24/7 for the last couple of years. Of course, everything has a price, but I use it too much to ever think about parting with it. I even frequently use it for casual listening of my local broadcast AM stations during the day.
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Nice. I am glad you tried it. I mostly listen to my transmitter in IQ mode. I find it sounds better because in sideband the kiwi has preemphasis. It is not needed on my transmitter since I run preemphasis.
Yeah, understood.
Previous to trying this out yesterday, I thought that the kiwi was not responding to single-digit Hertz steps simply because I was using the sync detector offset indicator (at the bottom of the "audio" panel, showing the offset from center) to judge if was making the steps. Aside from the fact that the offset indicator jumps around a little bit every second due to noise, etc., I can see that the offset indicator does not always respond linearly to single-digit Hertz steps. While you can null it down to < 1 Hertz offset with"big" jumps (e.g., 30 Hertz, etc.) tweaking it by a few Hertz at a time often does not seem to step linearly in my experience. It might not quite do what you ask it to do. Hence, I was left with impression that it wasn't responding to single Hertz steps.
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A few minutes ago, I tried a fun test with a pair of KiwiSDRs, one of the W3HFU receivers and K1VL Vermont. Instead of looking for a zero beat, I had two browser tabs open and went to upper sideband mode, tuning 1000 Hz below CHU. I could then listen for the beat between two tones at 1000 Hz.
Without using the 1hz url parameter, I could not tune arbitrarily between the 10 hz increments on the K1VL receiver. It would round and tune to the nearest 10 Hz. With 1 Hz tuning enabled, I could tune in 1 Hz steps with ease. After having fun doing it by ear, I went to SAM mode and did indeed notice the audio panel's sync offset display respond to those 1 Hz steps (or not, if I didn't have 1 Hz tuning enabled).
That sync offset is a pretty slick way to compare receivers, if you tune them both to the same station! After picking and poking around on several receivers, checking then against WWV, I can say that most are within a couple of Hz and some are dead nuts on frequency - within a few tenths of a Hertz, plus or minus some QSB effects.
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Without using the 1hz url parameter, I could not tune arbitrarily between the 10 hz increments on the K1VL receiver. It would round and tune to the nearest 10 Hz.
Ah HAH! It's not just me imagining things.
... After having fun doing it by ear, I went to SAM mode and did indeed notice the audio panel's sync offset display respond to those 1 Hz steps (or not, if I didn't have 1 Hz tuning enabled).
Ok, well I was right for a little while anyway. :D
That sync offset is a pretty slick way to compare receivers, if you tune them both to the same station! After picking and poking around on several receivers, checking then against WWV, I can say that most are within a couple of Hz and some are dead nuts on frequency - within a few tenths of a Hertz, plus or minus some QSB effects.
If they are GPS locked with acq[uisition] of enough satellites (hopefully 4 or more), I would hope so.
I have encountered a few non-locked (I assume) in the southern hemisphere that are ~100 Hz off frequency at 10 MHz - which might not be a big problem in some contexts - but can be misleading in others like FT8, where the TX bandwidth is only ~50 Hz and accuracy down to <10 Hertz is kind of important. :(
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KiwiSDR developer John is soliciting expressions of interest in the new KiwiSDR2 to select the size of its first production run.
https://forum.kiwisdr.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2994/kiwisdr-2-your-expression-of-interest-needed (https://forum.kiwisdr.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2994/kiwisdr-2-your-expression-of-interest-needed)
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All KiwiSDR without a particular splash screen image now show the KiwiSDR 2 board