HFU HF Underground
Technical Topics => Equipment => Topic started by: jazzjester on August 26, 2013, 0327 UTC
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Hello to the group. I have been in the radio broadcast business on a part time basis for 30 years and a radio lover all my life. Long enough to know that commercial (and largely community radio as well) has gone steadily downhill especially since deregulation. There may be a few exceptions and it is those exceptions that radio nuts like myself are willing to go to great lengths to hear.
Recently I picked up a Sony ICF 2010 which immediately rekindled my desire to get into other options of hearing cool stuff on the airwaves. A desire that was short lived a number of years back after purchasing a DX 392 and having no luck with it. After stumbling on this sight and playing with the Sony at the shack I own at the 6000' level of Sequoia National Forest I am now in the throes of this great obsession and addiction. After purchasing the ICF 2010
I immediately put up a random wire of around 120'. It was a crude start and I love the radio but now see it's shortcomings, particularly the front end overload and the idea of the static discharge screwing up the unit scares me. After researching the many mods (and realizing I ain't no tech) I have come to the conclusion that I am maybe better served to buy a good desktop receiver than to ship this off to mod heaven and wallet hell. I have available to me either a Kenwood R1000 for 200 clams or a Icom R75 for 400.00 both in excellent working order. Which one is the better buy and which will serve my purpose of AM Dxing the broadcast band and tuning in the great Pirate stuff I see is going on from 6920 to about 6950??? I will also be listening to the ham cats and anything else I can find. Will it behoove me to spring for a MFJ 956 tuner or would I need one with these units? I will mainly be using a random wire but buying a pre-made sloper or something may be in the cards as well. Repeat; I am no tech.... but I do have a few acres to play on. Sorry for the long-winded introduction and thanks!!
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Hi jazzjester-
I've owned a ICF-2010 since March 1988. I blew the front-end FETs around 1989. Sent it to Sony, they fixed it, and threw in some extra replacements (which I've lost since then). I can't remember if they added the protection diodes. Since getting it back, have never blown the FETs as I only use the whip or an antenna connected to the whip. The thing works just as well today as the day I got it. I will never, ever give it up.
In later models of the unit, they put some protection diodes in there to the ext antenna jack, but don't know when nor how to identify a unit with them in it. Be paranoid and hook an antenna to the whip and you'll be fine (as the whip does have the protection diodes).
As far as overload... that surprised me. I'm currently in a major metropolitan area with an 5kW AM pest about 5-10 miles away. The 2010 handles that one gracefully. I've never put 120' wire on the radio. At most, I'll put a 25' wire onto the whip. While the extra 25' wire brings up the signal, it also brings up the noise. Its a wash on whether its worth it.
Got a pile of other radios, but as far as portables go, it remains my favorite. And nearly 25 1/2 years later, its still going strong. Tonight, recorded Undercover Radio on 6925 kHz USB with a relay of a show from KIPM on the 2010. The only way I'll be separated from my 2010 is by death, and I'm looking for a way to take it with me.
I'd say keep that one and get a second desktop radio. The 2010 is still a portable with its inherent limitations, but still top notch.
Out of curiosity, how big is your lot? Got 500'+ in any direction? If so, take a look at a Beverage on the ground (BOG) antenna. My lot isn't big enough, but a friend has a 3 acre lot and he's got nearly 500' north to south, so some day we're going to lay out an antenna and see how things work. A while back, put out a 2200' BOG on a country road. LOTS of signals on AM (with my 2010) and took forever to roll that wire back up.
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Hi jazzjester-
In later models of the unit, they put some protection diodes in there to the ext antenna jack, but don't know when nor how to identify a unit with them in it. Be paranoid and hook an antenna to the whip and you'll be fine (as the whip does have the protection diodes).
The only way I'll be separated from my 2010 is by death, and I'm looking for a way to take it with me.
Got 500'+ in any direction? If so, take a look at a Beverage on the ground (BOG) antenna. A while back, put out a 2200' BOG on a country road. LOTS of signals on AM (with my 2010) and took forever to roll that wire back up.
Hey Skeezix,
Great stuff man. Thanks! No intention of losing the Sony it's definitely a keeper. My unit is mid 80s judging by the serial number. The Kenwood or ICOM would be second receivers. I do have enough space to do a BOG NE to SW and probably N to S. However I have a power line and breaker box that comes into the cabin to contend with either way. I'll also be going around a number of trees so a perfectly straight line may be tough. We are in the forest to be sure. Lotta granite where I'm at as well. I'll make this my next experiment but with 500'. About 1/3 mile up the road we have mucho communication towers to contend with, probably 20 towers and 80 dishes minimum. Perfect physical spot to DX but way too much RF to pick up anything (yeah I tried...) CHP, Sheriff, Cal Fire etc. Currently none used for AM, FM or TV broadcast. Fortunately they are far enough away they don't effect me at the shack but gives you an idea of how highly coveted the mountain we are on is for communication. Should be great for dx and broadcast.....
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Question remains what to buy; Kenwood R1000 for 200 clams or a Icom R75 for 400.00 both in excellent working order. I know which is the better unit but is it too much for casual DX?
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Going by specs, the R75 is better in the wide and narrow dynamic blocking range. And of course a little more feature rich. I've never had an R75 but have owned a few R-1000 years ago and loved them at the time. I had a chance to play with an R75 a few years back for a month (borrowed) and really liked it also. Personally if you can swing it, I'd go the R75 route. Easier for PC control, better receiver with more features. I'm guessing parts are easier to get also. I think in the long run you'd be better served by the R75. Just MHO.
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I had an R1000 many years ago (when it was new), and an R71A (but not the R75). In fact the R71A replaced the R1000. No contest, the R71A was superior. I suspect an R75 would also be superior. IIRC, the R75 has "only" 3 IF stages vs the 4 in the R71A (I doubt matters that much) but also has the DSP module (which IIRC there are some mods to make it work better).
No contest, even at the higher price I'd choose the R75 over the R1000.
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I'm a Drake man, but I've heard nothing but good things about the R-75 since it hit the market about a decade ago. At 400 bucks that's a no-brainer, IMHO.
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I had a R1000 years ago, loved it. It's a very highly regarded receiver. I'd reccommend it.
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Appreciate the input. Thanks to all. Leaning in the direction of the R-75. Got the bug bad. May just see if this Hammer will cut me a deal on both.... Skeezix I tried 25' of speaker wire and clipped onto the Sony ICF 2010 with an alligator clip. To my great joy I was able to listen to Red Mercury Labs tonight. Amazed the heck out of me given my weeknight post is on the San Joaquin Valley floor right at sea level! Sure wish I was in the hills tonight.... and the sound was better on the Sony. Thanks again. I'll keep reading the great posts. Could be a tuner is next.... then on to antenna fun!
jazzjester
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Stay out of the hills until those fires die down.
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R75 no doubt. But like pigmeat says, if you can get a drake r8 for $400, well I had one and listened to pirates in the early 90s with a 20 foot chunk of wire hung around the ceiling of a first floor apartment. That's the only piece of equipment I sold I wish I had back.
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You could also go down to your local Fry's, get a couple diodes, wire them back to back on a couple pieces of wire, and just clip them between your antenna and a ground. Then you can still use your Sony too.
No opening up of the radio necessary.....
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Appreciate all the input. I'm afraid I'm a hopeless case. The guy selling the equipment is obviously a Ham operator and has been doing it for many moons. The Sony ICF I bought from him was in near mint shape so I know the quality of the stuff he has. I called him last night after seeing he had an MFJ Deluxe Versa Tuner II, Model MFJ-969 for sale as well and to pick his brain. So...uhhhh I'm buying the ICOM R75, The Kenwood R 1000 and the MFJ Deluxe Versa Tuner II, Model MFJ-969 for 550.00. Picking them up today. I'm sunk. The better half's gonna freak.
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Sounds good. Just because a radio is older, like the Kenwood, it doesn't mean it's a bad receiver. My favorite receiver for general listening is a Drake R-4B that is probably close to 50 years old.
My advice on wife handling, hide 'em in your garage/spare closet and bring them in piece by piece over a month or so. Women aren't the only ones who can play the "This old thing? Why I've had it for years." game.
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Sounds good. Just because a radio is older, like the Kenwood, it doesn't mean it's a bad receiver. My favorite receiver for general listening is a Drake R-4B that is probably close to 50 years old.
My advice on wife handling, hide 'em in your garage/spare closet and bring them in piece by piece over a month or so. Women aren't the only ones who can play the "This old thing? Why I've had it for years." game.
With what I've read about the Kenwood it will be a great backup at the very least. Picked it all up today and can't wait to get it to the mountaintop. After perusing the manual over a cigar this afternoon it looks like there will be some hours spent getting past the learning curve on the Icom. In regards to the other half if you have some advise on how to sneak a couple of Wellbrook ALA's by her.......
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In regards to the other half if you have some advise on how to sneak a couple of Wellbrook ALA's by her.......
"Honey, this big ring only begins to show the amount of love I have for you."
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In regards to the other half if you have some advise on how to sneak a couple of Wellbrook ALA's by her.......
"Honey, this big ring only begins to show the amount of love I have for you."
!!!!
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Thanks to everyone that offered up suggestions on the receivers. After three nights of DXing from the perch with the Icom, Kenwood and Sony I was very surprised by what I found. This was no scientific study but done just by ear. I tested all three units on a 71' random wire out of 20 gauge speaker wire, no ground, running from approx 30' off the ground at the end to 14' off the ground at the units. Test was conducted outside on the deck using a regular 120 wall outlet, no extension cords, surge protectors, power strips etc. The Kenwood and Icom were powered by their original power supplies and the Sony on batteries. All lights were off, no microwave, TV etc inside or out, so no interference. The random wire was plugged in to the clip terminals of the Kenwood and Icom but attached to the whip of the Sony with an alligator clip. The test station was Red Mercury Labs on 09-01-2013 beginning at approx 03:00 UTC over 6935 USB. I stumbled on Led Zep as broadcast via Red Mercury on the Kenwood 1000. The signal was faint but I could definitely ID the tune. Happy as hell with the Kenwood but thinking the Icom would make me want to plug into my tower speakers I ran inside, grabbed the Icom and plugged in. After trying every possible configuration of filters, preamps etc I was really shocked that the Icom wasn't nearly as adept as filtering out the background noise as the Kenwood. Hardly able to believe it I switched back and forth several times. Same result. Shaking my head I grabbed a clip and hooked up to the Sony whip and after adjusting the RF was further blown away to find the Sony even clearer. After this test and several others on USB over the weekend I could got similar results. All the options on the Icom are very cool and it does things neither of the other two can. Unfortunately at the present one of those things is not filter out the muck on USB.....
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Interesting
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That sony is legendary, so I can't really say I'm suprised. Kenwood is no slouch when it comes to building receivers, so I'm not really suprised that it outperformed the Icom. All in all, I'd say you've got some keeper rig's there.
Steve
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The question here is what do you mean by 'noise'? If it was absorbed through the AC line, the fact that the Sony operated on batteries could be a clue as to why the difference there.
I think the R75 comes from the factory with a 2.1 khz SSB filter, whereas the R-1000 came supplied with a wider, 2.8 khz SSB filter. That might have made a difference in what you were hearing. I think the Sony 2010's narrowest filter is around 3 khz (from what I see on the 'net), so it would be even wider.
The narrower the filter, the less audio information you're going to have -- which is fine for just voice or CW, but not so great if it's music.
Just a guess, anyway.
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The question here is what do you mean by 'noise'? If it was absorbed through the AC line, the fact that the Sony operated on batteries could be a clue as to why the difference there.
I think the R75 comes from the factory with a 2.1 khz SSB filter, whereas the R-1000 came supplied with a wider, 2.8 khz SSB filter. That might have made a difference in what you were hearing. I think the Sony 2010's narrowest filter is around 3 khz (from what I see on the 'net), so it would be even wider.
The narrower the filter, the less audio information you're going to have -- which is fine for just voice or CW, but not so great if it's music.
Just a guess, anyway.
Thanks BoomBox. The noise being hiss and atmospheric static. The fridge was the only thing on and it was on a different breaker. I wondered about AC line noise as well. However it sounded similar on all units. I guess I would have to say the Sony seemed to have better ability to pull in the station at that time under the conditions.
In an attempt to limit "noise" this weekend I pounded in two 4' copper ground rods 20 feet apart and daisy chained 3-20 foot sections of wire to both rods and then to a ground terminal on the cabin near the breaker box. I hooked an MFJ 949E Versa Tuner to the Kenwood 1000 and ran the first 20' section of ground wire from the Versa Tuner to the first rod. I'm not sure if it made any difference or not but was picking up Red Mercury Labs and XFM really great using the 71' random wire. Didn't take the Icom this week and the signal from Red Mer especially was so good I didn't even mess with the Sony. Should probably post some new questions on the MFJ tuner and another on grounding. The more I research and play around the more freakin questions I have.....
Thanks for the research on the filters on those units! Taking the Icom next weekend. I have a Par Electronics EF-SWL should be here this week. Will make for some great testing I'm hopin'.
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Well, I can't speak for tabletop receivers like the R75 or R1000, but of the portables I have, some just seem more impervious to electrical (and other) noise than other radios. That may be part of the case with your Sony.
My Panasonic seems to reduce noise more than my other SW radios.
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Receiver noise and overall effectiveness are difficult to judge until you're in conditions that are relatively free of man-made noise.
Before the 2000s most household doodads had to meet FCC standards (which are still technically in effect but ignored for all practical purposes). Any decent battery operated portable with a whip was good enough for broadcast shortwave listening indoors.
When I lived in a rural area the Uniden Bearcat DX1000 - a modest portatop receiver - was good enough for international DXing with only an inexpensive Radio Shack random wire antenna 20' off the ground. My ground was just a hollow copper pipe knocked a couple of feet deep into sandy loam. RFI was practically non-existent, so I heard everything within practical reach of propagation.
Back then I hardly every used my Sony ICF-2010 and Magnavox D2935.
Now that I'm in a typical suburban area a good receiver like the Palstar R30C is only as good as the antenna and man-made noise allow. Often I get better reception by just walking 50 yards away from the nearest building and power lines with the Sony 2010 or Magnavox portable. Walking on a few yards away can make a huge difference in apparent signal clarity. A directional antenna like a small loop to null out the worst local RFI can make a big difference too.
I'm occasionally tempted to give up the Palstar but portables tend to be makeshift solutions. The Sony 2010 isn't ideal for sideband listening because the tuning increments are rather coarse - although it's excellent for AM stations. The Magnavox D2935 uses a BFO so I can fine tune for sideband, but it's a little drifty and I have to continually retune every few minutes to keep music on pitch - although it's not that critical unless the sideband content is mostly music. The Palstar is rock solid stable, bulletproof against MW breakthrough, and the narrow filters virtually eliminate breakthrough from opposite sidebands - there have been a few occasions when there were pirates on 6925 LSB and USB, and I could easily isolate one or the other without any QRM just by switching between USB and LSB with the narrow Collins filter.
But the main challenge remains man-made RFI, which varies depending on which doodads the neighbors have turned on at the moment. Usually it's not bad at night. But on the unusual occasions when the power goes out and I can use just a portable on batteries, I realize just how incredibly noisy a typical suburban neighborhood really is.