HFU HF Underground
General Category => General Radio Discussion => Topic started by: Chanter on June 10, 2014, 1031 UTC
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... Now and then buying an hour or so of airtime on one of the commercial time-seller stations (WRMI, WBCQ, you know) and airing a pirate show legally? I imagine, given a lot of the music quite a few of the North American and European pirates play, that it'd go over well, and if it takes the place of Brother Scary and his mouthful of sandpapered hate, all the better! ... Why yes, I'm irritated about the prevalence of doomsday idiocy on the time-seller stations again (again? that's better phrased as yet), why do you ask?
In all seriousness, has anyone ever thought about doing something like this? Even if someone were to act as a sort of relay and air a program for a pirate, with the other pirate's consent first of course, it could work.
... This is admittedly somewhere between outright call to action and meandering musing. Call it a little of both. I am serious about this idea, though. $25 now and then for an hour of legally-aired pirate-originated programming (if I'm remembering BCQ's rates correctly) doesn't seem so unreasonable, and it'd beat the pants off bigotry any day of the week. Thoughts, folks?
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Captain Ganja, of Radio Free Euphoria, did this for a number of years. He gave up pirating (at least so it is said) and had a weekly show on WBCQ. I think he was funded by donations. I believe kracker did this for a while as well. I'm sure there have been others.
Of course, Alan Wiener, the founder of WBCQ, was a pirate himself, and has a show on WBCQ in addition to running the station. cosmikdebris, who had (maybe still has?) a show on WBCQ for years (the "Poorly-prepared White Sauce Hour", or something like that), is at least closely associated with pirates, and may or may not be one himself; he is still part of the WBCQ effort behind the scenes.
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$25 for an hour? Not bad, not bad at all! Thats cheaper than a transmitter.
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I thought it was a bit more than $25 an hour, more like $60. The WBCQ website just says "reasonable rates".
http://www.wbcq.com/?p=55
WWRB also leases time in large blocks. You lease the transmitter 24/7
http://www.wwrb.org/ptime.php
WRMI also leases time & they claim to be $1/minute but you probably have to lease a large block of time for that rate
http://www.wrmi.net/pb/wp_435c14af/wp_435c14af.html
To answer Chanters original question I have thought about doing this quite often but I don't really have anything to say that I feel is worth $60/hour or even $25/hour....sad but true.
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My first question would be "what is the potential size of the audience". I suspect the number is very very low. Sure, you could heavily promote it via the internet, but if you can reach people that way... why buy the airtime in the first place?
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Good point Chris. Maybe if you are doing something interesting & unusual like that digital special broadcast that was on multiple transmitters worldwide a couple of months ago it would be worth it but I suspect that even the listenership for the "million watt" program wasn't all that high....still a cool program though.
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Whoops. Thanks for the rate per hour corrections. I freely admit I didn't have a clue there.
As for low listenership and the why bother factor... what it comes down to for me is what would you rather have out there? If a handful of listeners get the option of listening to music, or current events, or heck, rebroadcast OTR shows for an hour rather than hate speech and doom, I count it a win. I have a gigantic bias here, I know I do. I'm not sorry.
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What would I rather have out there... That's a good question.
I suppose the stations that most fascinated me were the domestic broadcasters on Shortwave.
Stations like VLW6 from Western Australia (the Shortwave relay of 6WN), the ones still on the air in Brazil, and the Canadian SW outlets like CKZU and CKZN (and the one in Toronto whose call letters I don't remember). Gabon's Africa Number One would be another one of these.
And you could add the two or three stations left in South East Asia, in Malaysia, that run pop and rock and are still on the air. There used to be more: Singapore had a cool station on the 31 meter band that was audible on the west coast during the mornings. RTM Kuching used to be on the air on the 49 meter band, playing pop and rock music, with commercials. Very cool.
They are and were basically Shortwave relays of real, local, domestic broadcast radio stations.
The US equivalent would have been WRNO.
Of course, with online radio streaming, you can hear many radio domestic, local stations of the world without a SW receiver. But before online radio, you had to be a DXer with a good antenna to hear such stations on MW, or an SWL with a decent radio or antenna to be able to listen to any of the stations mentioned -- most of which were audible on either coast of the U.S.
So that's what I would want to hear. But -- of course -- it ain't gonna happen.
(Edited for lousy grammar, 6-16-2014)
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I always thought it would be a fun thing to do, but the cost was a bit prohibitive. Then I think most stations wanted a certain number of programs, like one new program a week. You'd have to be dedicated to do that, but in my busy life I couldn't guarantee a new show all the time.
Then, you also have to worry about paying royalties for any music you play. Online stations on Live365 and Pandora, for example, have to pay a little for each song they stream. If the recording industry wanted to be a bunch of dicks, they'd come after you demanding royalties.
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I thought about going the WBCQ route back in the middle of the last decade. I talked to Alan Weiner about it couple of times. The going rate then was 50 bucks an hour, but Alan said he was flexible on rates for ex or current pirates.
The catch for me was having to buy an hour every week for several months. You're looking at 200-250 bucks a month plus having to crank out a new 60 minute show every week. Too much extra work, IMO.
If you could find another pirate or three to alternate the time with, and share costs, that could possibly work.
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Has Weiner ever put any limits on content? I suppose that the FCC limitations apply, although, if the audience is supposed to be outside of the US, perhaps that's not an issue. And I suppose Jay stretched those limits (eww... that conjures up some ugly images), but, from what I heard, the worst he suffered was to just be cut off (yikes, that's even worse!)
Ok, sorry. Anyway, what I was trying to get at is whether using a licensed BC station would put limits on content that pirating would, obviously, not worry about.
I thought about going the WBCQ route back in the middle of the last decade. I talked to Alan Weiner about it couple of times. The going rate then was 50 bucks an hour, but Alan said he was flexible on rates for ex or current pirates.
The catch for me was having to buy an hour every week for several months. You're looking at 200-250 bucks a month plus having to crank out a new 60 minute show every week. Too much extra work, IMO.
If you could find another pirate or three to alternate the time with, and share costs, that could possibly work.
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Glad I'm not the only night owl on here!
Hmmm, I can hear it now, "Pirate Fridays" 6PM EST to 9 PM EST. Coughing up 600-ish bucks a month to keep a weekly pirate-ish show on the air. Makes me wonder what I spend on gas to keep the genset going. I bet it's a lot less that 60 bucks an hour.
Interesting idea, I've also toyed with the idea of buying satellite time from a teleport. Have someone else do the hard work of setting up the TX and antenna, and being eaten alive by bugs, I'll stay at home and play radio, and make sure the neighbors FTA doesn't work :)
Chanter, your not the only one who doesn't like the "howling" of religious radio. I spent enough time as a kid hating myself because of the church. I soon after learned the "one size fits all" box of religion doesn't fit all.
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RH, I know exactly what you mean re: not liking myself much at all because of church doctrine. I'm not straight. That should say it all. The ridiculous pseudo-doctrine spewed all over the SW airwaves is that much worse, IMO. If I start talking about whatshisname Peters, Gene and Melissa Scott or scary Brother Stair and his missing teeth, I'll be here an hour and make everybody's computers spout red hot steam. Ahem.
Hmmmm. Alternating between several pirates sounds an intriguing idea. There's also the idea of relaying pirate shows already being produced for broadcast on a different freq. I'm thinking specifically of Europirates getting airtime to the States this way. The royalties issue is a fair point, though.
Heck, why not broadcasts of oldtime radio shows already freely accessible to the public. I know loads of SWLers who love those, and I say that as one of the crowd who does! If the cost were shared between a network of people, and I include myself in that crowd...
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Well, as one who's not religious the last thing I want to listen to is hours and hours of bible talk. It's just not something I'm interested in, although I did keep the recording from WYFR on May 21, 2011 when they said that the rapture was definitely going to happen then.
But yes, shelling out $50 or $60 every week to put a show on a licensed broadcaster was a bit outside my budget since my radio budget is usually nonexistent. But I think it would have been a fun project to do for a while.
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The wisdom I gleaned from this thread is that royalties, cost of airtime, and a lack of content/personal time (on the part of the radio DJ) seem to be the major factors to preventing people from using legit airtime.
We know the religious shows have excess money (they can afford to air shows that nobody listens to). I assume the shows come from a church that has a budget for "missionary work" or "spreading the gospel".
I assume the churches need listeners so I think the church would pay a person to make interesting/funny things to bring listeners to the main show. I'm thinking of 2min "commercials" of funny stuff not related to religion at all.
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We know the religious shows have excess money (they can afford to air shows that nobody listens to). I assume the shows come from a church that has a budget for "missionary work" or "spreading the gospel".
That, and a lot of them beg for money on the air, so that the missionary work also becomes a revenue source.
I assume the churches need listeners so I think the church would pay a person to make interesting/funny things to bring listeners to the main show. I'm thinking of 2min "commercials" of funny stuff not related to religion at all.
You probably don't understand fundamentalists then. Most fundie Christians eschew anything that's "worldly," or not specifically Christian. And it seems most of them don't see a need to "bring listeners to the main show" because a lot of them assume that God will send them listeners.
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"...a lot of them assume that God will send them listeners...."
Heh, that's funny-- I've always assumed the same thing!
As for buying time on WBCQ, well, I've said this before....
I'm a radio pirate. Running shows on WBCQ is NOT pirate radio.
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There's a bonafide FM radio station here called "Pirate Radio". It sounds so dumb when they do their station ID like they're all bad. "This is Pirate Radio" amongst the commercials...
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We know the religious shows have excess money (they can afford to air shows that nobody listens to). I assume the shows come from a church that has a budget for "missionary work" or "spreading the gospel".
That, and a lot of them beg for money on the air, so that the missionary work also becomes a revenue source.
I assume the churches need listeners so I think the church would pay a person to make interesting/funny things to bring listeners to the main show. I'm thinking of 2min "commercials" of funny stuff not related to religion at all.
You probably don't understand fundamentalists then. Most fundie Christians eschew anything that's "worldly," or not specifically Christian. And it seems most of them don't see a need to "bring listeners to the main show" because a lot of them assume that God will send them listeners.
I knew a Holy Roller preacher when I was a kid. He was driving his wife and kids back from the store. According to his wife he let go of the wheel and said "Lord, take over!" They went over the hill, striking a large tree. Everyone survived but the preacher.
My Grandpa said it was proof of evolution.
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Cool story...a hill... in those parts only the hill-wise are fit to prosper. And also people with one leg longer than the other.
The faith phenomenon reminds me of a story my friend told me. He was stationed in Afghanistan and said every once in a while a shoulder launched rocket would be shot at the base. But they wouldn't hit anything because the guys aim it in the general direction and let Allah's will find its target.
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I think George Carlin said it best...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE)
+-RH
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Alan at WBCQ doesn't seem to put any limits on content; refer to the last 'Tim Tron radio show' back in May of this year. It was Tim just being Tim and reminded me of many times we talked together :-)
BTW, there is an archive of many of the shows on the WBCQ web site... It's an archive of the GOOD stuff not Brother Weird...
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I have thought about it, but the cost seems a bit high. If I was to do it, I think I would go with WBCQ because they are supposed to be the cheapest that will carry non-religious programming. Sadly the trade off seems to be the range of the broadcast (if I put a program on WBCQ I wouldn’t even be able to hear it from my home, reception of WBCQ is horrible here, especially compared to every other US shortwave broadcaster) along with sometimes poor technical quality of broadcasts (I often hear them distorted or off-frequency). Still, it seems like a good way to get a program on the air for those who don’t want to pirate or don’t have equipment for it.
Is it possible to just randomly buy time instead of a regular schedule? Contrary to what I think some people said in this thread I believe it is possible to get a program less than once a week, Andrew Yoder does the Hobby Broadcasting Radio program once a month.
Any idea what the rates are on any station (particularly WBCQ) for a single one hour block?
I am confused based on other posts in this thread, does the person buying the air time have to pay fees for music or is that covered by the station?
If you buy time, do you have to pick an unused time or do you kick off some other program? It would be even better if you got to take a religious program off the air while you put yours on.
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If your main goal is to replace someone else's content, this probably isn't the best way to go about it. Commercial shortwave stations are businesses, and religious broadcasters are their biggest customers. I would go so far as to say stations like WRMI, WWCR, and WBCQ probably couldn't stay in business today if religious broadcasters weren't purchasing large blocks of time and providing a steady revenue stream.
If you have a cool idea for a show, and you just want to get it on the air, contact a couple stations and ask. The worst they can do is turn you down. A few years ago, when they didn't have a full slate of programming, WBCQ made social media posts to the effect that you could purchase time on a one-off basis, and they would use it to fill unpurchased airtime or when they had an unscheduled opening. You just wouldn't know ahead of time when your show would play. I haven't seen anything about this recently, but they still seem to have a couple openings in their schedule.
There is absolutely no way you're going to "kick off some other program" that has already paid for airtime. If a station will sell you time on a non-recurring basis, it will be during be during an opening in their schedule.
As for music licensing, the license fees most radio stations pay to ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC are based on a percentage of the station's revenue. If the station already plays commercial music, I would expect the music licensing to be baked into the price of the airtime. Again, it's only something the salesperson at the station itself can answer for sure.
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My main goal would put to put an interesting program on air, I was just trying to clarify because it looked like that’s what some people said.
... Now and then buying an hour or so of airtime on one of the commercial time-seller stations (WRMI, WBCQ, you know) and airing a pirate show legally? I imagine, given a lot of the music quite a few of the North American and European pirates play, that it'd go over well, and if it takes the place of Brother Scary and his mouthful of sandpapered hate, all the better!
That is primarily what I was thinking about. The main point of putting a program on air would (obviously) be to just put a good program on the air, but weather or not it would replace a religious program would be interesting to know (but would make no difference regarding if I bought air time or not). It would also be useful to know because those pointless religious programs occupy many time slots and frequencies that would work very well.
So I guess one off programs are sometimes a possibility.
I though they would pay for music licensing, just wanted to check.
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One could make a considerably strong argument that Brother Stair (and other creature preachers like him) turned more people away from content Shortwave listening than the Internet ever did. Their borderline hi-jacking of 31 meters is infuriating.
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If you have a cool idea for a show, and you just want to get it on the air, contact a couple stations and ask. The worst they can do is turn you down.
Myself and other stations have done relays for folks in the past. Hell, that's how we got our start.
+-RH
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If you have a cool idea for a show, and you just want to get it on the air, contact a couple stations and ask. The worst they can do is turn you down.
Myself and other stations have done relays for folks in the past. Hell, that's how we got our start.
+-RH
I used to relay a bunch of people, including several European op's and what used to be known as "studio pirates", people that didn't want to risk transmitting show's themselves. All they had to do was send me a copy of their show. If I liked it, I aired it. Simple as that.
I was going to be out in the sticks for a few hours transmitting. I didn't want to listen to myself over and over on the monitoring receiver,when I'd heard my own stuff several times putting it together.
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I have thought about it, but the cost seems a bit high. If I was to do it, I think I would go with WBCQ because they are supposed to be the cheapest that will carry non-religious programming. Sadly the trade off seems to be the range of the broadcast (if I put a program on WBCQ I wouldn’t even be able to hear it from my home, reception of WBCQ is horrible here, especially compared to every other US shortwave broadcaster) along with sometimes poor technical quality of broadcasts (I often hear them distorted or off-frequency). Still, it seems like a good way to get a program on the air for those who don’t want to pirate or don’t have equipment for it.
Is it possible to just randomly buy time instead of a regular schedule? Contrary to what I think some people said in this thread I believe it is possible to get a program less than once a week, Andrew Yoder does the Hobby Broadcasting Radio program once a month.
Any idea what the rates are on any station (particularly WBCQ) for a single one hour block?
I am confused based on other posts in this thread, does the person buying the air time have to pay fees for music or is that covered by the station?
If you buy time, do you have to pick an unused time or do you kick off some other program? It would be even better if you got to take a religious program off the air while you put yours on.
I looked into this a few years ago and around 100 Euros per hour on a 100 KW transmitter. I'm sure a better deal could be hammered out.
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WBCQ used to charge 50 dollars for an hour, but you had to commit for a few months of shows.
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One could make a considerably strong argument that Brother Stair (and other creature preachers like him) turned more people away from content Shortwave listening than the Internet ever did. Their borderline hi-jacking of 31 meters is infuriating.
How can anyone 'hijack' an empty SW broadcast band?
Since 2016 the 31 Meter Band has been mostly devoid of stations every night and many, if not most mornings. If I look over my logbooks, especially since the downturn in sunspots around 2016, 31 Meters has probably had an average of maybe 3-5 stations on any given evening, at the most (sometimes including WWV), and the 31 Meter band is about 600 khz wide -- at least 60, 10 KHz channels ar available (more if you consider that SW traditionally has used 5 kHz channels).
Sorry if it infuriates you, but religion's been on the SW since the 1950s probably. The real issue is other broadcasters have left the air, and the downturn of the last Solar Cycle just sped the demise of SW on its way.
Lately if there's no good prop to Asia in the morning, 31 Meters and 49 Meters are mostly static here (esp. at night) in my location, with a varying signal from WRMI, Cuba, and WWCR in the mix. Sometimes WWV doesn't show up on 10 MHz. If I hear Voz Missionaria on 9665 at night it's like Christmas. Amazing they even make it as far as the NW US.
In 2012 there was a LOT more activity. And Bro. Stair was still blaring away on the airwaves back then. He was just easier to tune past and find another station up the band.
As for the OP, there's a guy on several SW and MW and radio forums who works in the radio business, and he sometimes rents time on WRMI and plays music. So it can be done. It apparently doesn't have to be a long term thing. Apparently some of the stations will allow one-offs.