HFU HF Underground
Technical Topics => Equipment => Topic started by: Rhypht on June 17, 2014, 1618 UTC
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Hello, all. I'm new to these forums, so apologies if this isn't the correct place to post this.
I am heavily interested in getting into shortwave listening, specifically for pirate and numbers stations around the globe. I'm a licensed General class amateur radio operator, but I have only done local communications since I've got my license. While it's kept me busy and learning, the bands in my area aren't exactly 'exciting'.
I've always had a huge interest in radio, specifically the oddities and other things you can find on the shortwave, HF areas, which is how I found this forum.
My question is, what are some good pieces of equipment to get me into shortwave listening all over the world? Is it a very expensive investment to get up and running, and what all is required/recommended? Keep in mind that I really only have background with local (VHF and UHF) communications.
A simple $50 HT with a rubber ducky ant will suffice in listening and talking on many of those bands, but obviously not for what I am looking for here. I have heard people getting a basic station for listening up for $100 or less, but I am just wondering what the limitations are to a setup like that, or if that is actually a plausible thing for someone in my position.
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Like anything, it depends on how much you're willing to spend.
A good digital portable will get you a lot of signals and -- depending on the signal strengths in your area, or whether there are any high power AM stations real close -- you can usually add some wire to the external antenna jack, or clip to the radio's whip, and hear SW broadcasts and HF ham transmissions without too much effort.
I'm not into the brand (never used one), but the Tecsun brand of digital portables is popular right now, and some people swear by them. If you're just interested in listening to SW, AM-modulated broadcasts, Radio Shack's digital World Receiver does a good job for that, and goes for about $80.
If you have the money to spend, and really want to get seriously into SW and HF listening, there are SDR's and tabletop receivers, some which cost a bit -- but people swear by those, also.
A lot of the guys here use SDR's and different brands of tabletop receivers, and say they're the way to go. A more expensive, higher technology radio like one of those will probably bring in a lot more signals, but then you also need to consider an antenna. Even a fantastic radio won't bring in a lot if you don't have a decent antenna.
I use a Realistic (Radio Shack) digital portable from the 1990's and about 20 ft. of wire for an antenna. I hear a lot of stuff with just that. It may not be the preferable way to go for some, but it works for me.
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The Ultra wide-band SDR receiver from www.dxpatrol.pt looks great if you can stretch to ~$110.
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The Ultra wide-band SDR receiver from www.dxpatrol.pt looks great if you can stretch to ~$110.
That looks like an RTL dongle with an HF converter?
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Whatever radio you get, don't skimp on the antenna. Right now I'm using a 140 ft. random wire fed through a 9:1 balun and it's one of the best antennas I've ever used. If the trees on my property were situated differently, I'd convert it into a horizontal loop.
The antenna is the most important part of your listening setup, because without a good antenna that fancy radio will be little more than a paperweight. And generally speaking, the more wire you can get up high outside, the better. It doesn't have to be expensive, either. Just spend a few bucks on a roll of wire and get it up high between a couple trees and you'll be in business.
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Make sure your radio has the ability to receive sideband. Many radios that are sold as SW/AM/FM do not have a BFO. Many pirates will use USB or LSB for broadcasting. It is a more narrow signal but maximizes power output.
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Thanks for the help everyone. Will the Ultra wide-band SDR receiver receive sideband? It may be a common sense answer but it didn't say on the page.
Whatever radio you get, don't skimp on the antenna. Right now I'm using a 140 ft. random wire fed through a 9:1 balun and it's one of the best antennas I've ever used. If the trees on my property were situated differently, I'd convert it into a horizontal loop.
The antenna is the most important part of your listening setup, because without a good antenna that fancy radio will be little more than a paperweight. And generally speaking, the more wire you can get up high outside, the better. It doesn't have to be expensive, either. Just spend a few bucks on a roll of wire and get it up high between a couple trees and you'll be in business.
This is one thing I was wondering about. I certainly am not as educated on the ins and outs of antenna systems as I'd like to be. You mentioned a 9:1 balun, what exactly are you referring to? And what kind of wire works best for this situation?
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If that "ultra wide band SDR" really is just an RTL dongle with an HF converter, I'd personally avoid it. For about the same money, or maybe a little more, look into a used communications receiver?
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This is one thing I was wondering about. I certainly am not as educated on the ins and outs of antenna systems as I'd like to be. You mentioned a 9:1 balun, what exactly are you referring to? And what kind of wire works best for this situation?
A 9:1 balun is simply a transformer which helps bring the high impedance of an end-fed wire antenna down closer to the 50 Ohm impedance of most communications receivers. It also allows static charges on my 140' wire to bleed off to ground instead of into the radio.
More information here: http://www.abcelectronique.com/annuaire/montages/cache/1790/antenne-mf-et-hf.html (http://www.abcelectronique.com/annuaire/montages/cache/1790/antenne-mf-et-hf.html) Scroll down to "9:1 UNUN." An unun is basically the same thing as a balun, only both sides are unbalanced. I built mine just like in that picture, using 30 turns on the primary (antenna side) and 10 turns on the secondary (radio side). Then one leg of each side is connected directly to ground.
The wire I used was just standard magnet wire, since this was for a receiving antenna only and I wasn't going to be transmitting with it. If I were to transmit on it I'd have used some heavier wire.
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If that "ultra wide band SDR" really is just an RTL dongle with an HF converter, I'd personally avoid it. For about the same money, or maybe a little more, look into a used communications receiver?
Nothing wrong with an RTL dongle and HF converter, but I don't know that I'd recommend one for a newbie. Mine does take a bit of frequency tweaking until the crystal oscillator in the converter settles down. But "for the money," I have roughly $25 involved in my SDR setup. I'd love to find a decent communications receiver for that price.
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So the antenna is probably the most important part then. I've seen a lot of videos and reviews on HF receivers starting at $50. From what I understand, as long as you have an antenna setup that is high enough to receive, it doesn't matter as much about the receiver. How accurate is that? What makes one receiver better than another besides antenna?
Basically I just want to make sure that the receiver I get will be able to receive from very long distances, with the proper antenna setup of course.
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As far as receiving signals from far distances, your antenna is more important. The receiver can only work with what signals are fed to it from the antenna system, and if you're not getting signals down the coax cable then your receiver won't have much to hear.
That being said, you probably don't want to skimp too much on the receiver, either. Make sure you get one which has SSB coverage. A lot of SW receivers, especially portables but also some table tops, are AM-only. You'll be missing out on a lot of signals, and an AM-only receiver is useless for utility DX'ing since just about all signals are either SSB or digital. I'm willing to bet that most $50 SW receivers are AM-only.
Other things to look at receiver-wise are sensitivity and selectivity. Sensitivity means how well the receiver can hear signals, and selectivity means being able to tune out the signals you don't want to hear in favor of the one you want to hear. It's annoying trying to listen to a weak station while having nearby interference blocking it out, or trying to listen under images from the AB broadcast band.
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If you decide to go the portable receiver route, let me say that I am a VERY satisfied owner of a Tecsun PL660 - I'm one of those Tecsun weirdos Boombox DX was talking about ;D. I have only had experience with the 660. I have no clue about the other models. You can get the 660 through Kaito via Amazon for about $125.
http://www.amazon.com/Tecsun-PL-660-Portable-Shortwave-Single/dp/B004H9C4JK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403281424&sr=8-1&keywords=tecsun+pl+660
Although I concur with the consensus here about antennas, the Tecsun will perform well with nothing more than a few feet of outside wire brought in through a window and attached to the radio's antenna with an alligator clip. That's probably as much signal as any portable should be subjected to anyway. You can get familiar with the shortwave spectrum while you plan for your better antenna and save $$$ for a desktop receiver. Whatever way you decide to go... welcome!
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If you do go the portable route, make sure you get one which covers the entire 3-30 MHZ HF spectrum. I think there are some out there which leave out big chunks. And a digital frequency readout is a must.
Nothing wrong with getting started that way. I started with a Sony ICF7600 back in 1990, then graduated to a Sony 2010 which I still have and use while DXing away from home.
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You can find used radios on eBay for good prices. For example, Radio Shack DX 440, Sangean 803a, Grundig Satellit 800, Sangean 909x, realistic DX 302, ICOM R70, ICOM R71, Yaesu FRG 7700, and more. Prices range from $40-$300. Also check the Afedri SDR. This is an excellent SDR that rivals many much more expensive desktop receivers. It costs only $260 fully assembled and tested. Any of these choices will give you an excellent start in this hobby. Another option is hamfests or ham clubs. Also since you have a general ticket, a HF transceiver would be a viable option, I saw a Kenwood TS 440 recently go for $250 in good condition. This, along with a good antenna, would give you a complete HF station
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The Radio Shack PLL World Receiver (200-0629) I mentioned in the earlier post is made by Sangean, and also has a BFO. $80 new at your local Radio Shack.
Works well on SW (FETs in the RF and IF stages), is probably capable of FM DX as well (extra FET IF stage).
MW section has excellent selectivity, and works great with an external loop.
Has built in protection so you can attach an external antenna without worrying about static electricity zapping the RF transistors (although you would still want to keep it disconnected if there's a thunderstorm).
I have one and it pulls in plenty of stations with just 20 ft. of wire.
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I own both the Tecsun PL-660 and a Kenwood R-1000 and both a very convenient to use. However, I am at this moment limited by my antenna (I live in a huge appartment block).
A friend of mine has a Degen DE-1102, which is cheaper than the Tecsun, bus also ergonomically less convenient (it has SSB, but no USB/LSB for example). Other nice receivers are the Yaesu FRG-7700 (which is conceptually the same as the Kenwood I have), and some of the Sangean stuff (ATS-909 / 909X). A sony ICF-SW7600GR is also commonly used. Both Sangean and Sony are more expensive than the Tecsun. It all depends on how much you want to pay and the availability in your neighbourhood.
When I move in a few months to a house, I intend to install a random wire antenna with balun. This random wire antenna is simple insulated copper wire hung wherever you have space, preferably as high and as long as possible. The balun can be homemade (just check 9:1 balun on the internet). The ringcore can be scavenged from an old computer mainboard (there are typically about 4 on a computer main board and some extra on the video card). The wire of my balun is made from the wires inside an old printer cable.
If you do not have space fro an antenna, but you have access to the roof, you can try to make a PA0RDT mini-whip (check internet for that).
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Hello, all. I'm new to these forums, so apologies if this isn't the correct place to post this.
I am heavily interested in getting into shortwave listening, specifically for pirate and numbers stations around the globe. I'm a licensed General class amateur radio operator, but I have only done local communications since I've got my license. While it's kept me busy and learning, the bands in my area aren't exactly 'exciting'.
I've always had a huge interest in radio, specifically the oddities and other things you can find on the shortwave, HF areas, which is how I found this forum.
My question is, what are some good pieces of equipment to get me into shortwave listening all over the world? Is it a very expensive investment to get up and running, and what all is required/recommended? Keep in mind that I really only have background with local (VHF and UHF) communications.
A simple $50 HT with a rubber ducky ant will suffice in listening and talking on many of those bands, but obviously not for what I am looking for here. I have heard people getting a basic station for listening up for $100 or less, but I am just wondering what the limitations are to a setup like that, or if that is actually a plausible thing for someone in my position.
Yes I know it's none of my business, however you don't give a clue where you live. IF you're West of the Rockies your pirate "catches" will be few, And forget European pirates. Take a bit of free time & look at the posters locations: 90% + live in the far east & so. east of the U. S. Also, go to www.primetimeshortwave.com (http://www.primetimeshortwave.com) & download the pages of the time sort schedules. My experience is stations originating in the So. East/Australia/New Zealand, you know, Eastern Pacific, are easy catches West of the Rockies. Though Romania & Turkey also bounce around.