HFU HF Underground

Loggings => Spy Numbers => Topic started by: 4405486 on March 18, 2010, 1735 UTC

Title: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: 4405486 on March 18, 2010, 1735 UTC
I have been reading about this one in another group that I am in.

Credit goes to "original-token" and others for finding and analizing this
signal.

I have here San Luis Obispo, California:

RCVR: DX-396 Not SSB capable; but wide passband
About 1600 UTC commences with male voice counting numbers in what
is evidently Vietnamese. I have listened to audio files of this so I am
pretty confident of the I.D.

Solid signal. I have no expertise on this; wanted to list it so others can
monitor also.

Try:  10255 kHz USB About 1600 UTC
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: Sealord on March 18, 2010, 1841 UTC
I'll have to try to see if I have better luck with this station - I tried catching V24 with no trace of a signal whatsoever, but maybe this frequency/time slot is better for East coasters like myself.  Thanks for the info :)
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: 4405486 on March 18, 2010, 2053 UTC
Very new to this one myself. I get so excited takes me a while to settle down.
I only listened for about 5 minutes, evidently goes on longer.

I suspect you will have better luck with this signal than V24. Imagine a line
running from S. Korea to Japan to San Luis Obispo, Cal and then through
Mohave, Cal.; that will give you a rough idea of V24's usual trajectory. My
guess it is a directional antenna that is in use. Spring and Fall DX Season;
and also, times of Grey Line Enhancement might provide oportunities to
catch V24. Heard here most mornings.

I do not have the expertise regarding this new signal. But higher frequency
should propagate better than V24, may be more omni-directional than V24,
and is SSB. Both of these signals are primarily seawater circuits which
helps a lot for HF.

Good Hunting
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: 4405486 on March 19, 2010, 1819 UTC
Here San Luis Obispo, California I have:

Vietnamese Numbers Station- alleged

10,255 kHz USB  1558-1612 UTC March 19  2010
fair to good signal

Again I am not SSB capable. I suppose I could cobble together a BFO,
or dig up another RCVR for a beat note. However, I am reasonably
confident of I.D. based upon audio files and format.
If anybody would verify my observations, or make a fool of me- I'd
appreciate it.

Sounded like two messages of 5f groups- could have been more after
1612 UTC.

Final note on V24.
I have been curious to get an idea of how much this signal spreads to
the North and South of this QTH. I never heard this signal in San Diego-
to the South and did not want to pester the Brass Pounders to the North
up at KPH. I am working at my "Terminal" speed of 30 wpm- maybe someday.
VVV AR VY 73 TNX SK ..

Those who have been doing the speculation and analysis of this signal-
Please keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: 4405486 on March 20, 2010, 1817 UTC


10255 kHz USB

I was going to report "Nothing Doing";however, around 1621 UTC I did
observe a poor- barely discernible signal. Wait and see on this one.

Better luck with V24, I have:
V24  5715 kHz  1500-1506 UTC  Fair signal through noise
Music followed by Female counting 5 number groups 3/2 pattern
repeats with 2/3 pattern

V24  6215 kHz  1600-? (coffee refill)
Fair to good signal  4 number groups  2/2 pattern

V24  6730 kHz  1620-1630 UTC  Good Signal
5 number groups  3/2 pattern repeats with 2/3 pattern

I tend to be casual; fair to say, I missed several V24 transmissions
this morning.

On the subject of KPH, If you are interested in an operational Coastal
Maritime Station, Morse Code, Radio in general- Google KPH. I
highly recommend it.

I participated in the 100 year aniversary "Night of Nights" a couple
of years ago and have the verification. I used a MFJ Regenerative
Receiver. Say what you might about MFJ, I had fun building and
useing this Radio- I could use it now.
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: Token on March 22, 2010, 1337 UTC
Start times on the Vietnamese numbers station has been observed as anything from 1557 to 1622.  It normally consist of more than one message part, up to three have been observed, however they are duplicates of the first.  From one to three have been observed on a specific day.

All message parts have consisted of 5f groups.

The message is repeated for many days in a row, although I have not recorded a message in a few days now (although they have been heard here, just did not bother to record) I believe the message yesterday was the same one that I first recorded on the 9th of March.

Three voices have been heard so far, one female, one male, and one higher pitched male.

There has been some discussion on this station, is it a numbers station or is it maritime?  In my opinion it matters not the source.  It is sending coded messages in a format essentially identical to what have been refered to as "spy numbers stations".  It contains an encoded message, and the intended recipient is unknown.

T!
Mohave Desert, California USA
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: Token on March 22, 2010, 1349 UTC

V24  6215 kHz  1600-? (coffee refill)
Fair to good signal  4 number groups  2/2 pattern


If you had stayed for the last half of this transmission you would have heard it transition form 2/2 format to 1/3 format.  The first half and second half of each V24 transmission contains the same numbers groups, just presented in a different way.

Also, after the music there is an announcement to the intended recipient.  A given recipient always has the same music lead-in.

The recipient (and thus music) is time/day/freq specific, and it is tied to days of the month vs days of the week as is common with other numbers stations.  If you hear a specific song on the 17th of the month on 6215 kHz at 1600 then next month you will hear the same song at that time on that freq.  However, on the 24th of the month you may hear a different song on 6215 kHz at 1600.

There do appear to be a few specific slots that alternate months, that is to say that specifc day/time/freq will only be used every other month.  I have not got a firm grasp on these yet, and it might not be so, I am working on that.

Also, the last day of the month can sometimes jumble the first day of the month.  For example, if the month ends on the 28th and there is normally a TX scheduled for the 28th and 29th then you will see the 29th TX on the 1st...if that time slot is normally empty on the 1st.  If there is normally a TX scheduled for that slot on the 1st then the second TX is not sent.

T!
Mohave Desert, California USA
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: 4405486 on March 23, 2010, 1714 UTC
I have:

M94  5715 kHz  1400-1406 UTC  3/22/2010  fair to good  ID 1014

M94 5715 kHz  1400-1406 UTC  3/23/2010  good through moderate
noise  ID 1014

Token has cosiderable knowledge; I defer.

Trying to get as much listening in as possible; increased noise levels
and weaker signals just around the corner as we move towards
summer.
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: 4405486 on March 25, 2010, 2119 UTC
In the UTILITY section "LEX" of Ft. worth, Texas reports V24
observations complete with audio sample.

This is another useful point along V24's usual trajectory. So far, I have:
South Korea; Japan; San Luis Obispo, California; Mohave, California; and
FT. Worth, Texas.

As per my suggestion, I have been playing around with this. Will have
to dig up a Globe. Google: Equidistant Map Creation; I have been using
the one that starts with: AZ Proj at WM7D. It's pretty easy. I have been
using Soul, South Korea for starts.

TDP (Transmitter Documentation Project) sometimes is usefull for refineing
this proscess. However, thier data is not as up to date as it should be.

It appears that the upper most (Northern) half of Florida is in V24's
usual trajectory. Ground absorption is definately an issue. Many factors
effect the Skip zone size: Time of year, Time of Day, Sun Spot number,
and so on. If my memory is correct 6215 kHz is usually the strongest signal.

Hope this helps. TNX


Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: Sealord on March 26, 2010, 1536 UTC
I've been trying this past week for 10255 starting around 15:57z-16:10z - at times I've heard some faint audio, but nothing for positive copy.  Switching my array towards Asia and even the backside hasn't produced any results, but I'm not giving up yet :)
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: 4405486 on March 26, 2010, 1822 UTC
I have been generating these Azimuthal Equidistant Projections and plotting
V24's typical signal path. Hopefully, those new to this sort of thing can see
the possibilities. Try: www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml

I am sure there are better ways of doing this; those with propagation
modeling experience could have a lot of fun. I like this.

I have to get back to some things I need to attend to.

Cheers

Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: Lex on March 30, 2010, 0625 UTC
In the UTILITY section "LEX" of Ft. worth, Texas reports V24
observations complete with audio sample.

Don't trust that guy.  He drunk-DX's and logs in the wrong sections (http://www.hfunderground.com/board/index.php/topic,786.0.html).

Yup, I've caught V24 a few times, but logged to the Utility rather than Spy Numbers logging section.  Why?  I dunno, I've slept since then.  Ask Mickey.  ???
Title: Re: Tail Ending possible? Vietnamese Numbers Station 10255 kHz USB
Post by: 4405486 on April 03, 2010, 2232 UTC
Here San Luis Obispo, California:

VTN  10255 kHz USB  1559 UTC 4/3/10  fair signal

Sounded like one group sent; could have been more before;or, after.

I tend to think this signal originates in Asia and is intended for recipients
located in Asia. Somewhat similar to V24, the West Coast of USA just
happens to be on the signal path as it extends onward past the intended
recipients.

I also like the shipping theory. Could be private key encryption being
used for commercial shipping.

For the sake of discussion, Asian shipping lines converge on Southern
California. Plenty of logistics and Vietnamese Speakers in the area.

I recall looking at a communications van on Camp Pendleton, at one of
the Vietnamese Imigrant Facilities. I rejoice at their hardworking success.

TNX