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Loggings => MW Free Radio => Topic started by: skeezix on July 31, 2016, 0228 UTC

Title: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: skeezix on July 31, 2016, 0228 UTC
0226Z 15331 In & out of the noise level, but can hear an OM talking. Radio is set to USB to avoid splatter from 1700. Can hear 1710's carrier.
0243Z 15331 Signal fading up & down. At times just a bit over the noise level, but still can't make out what they're saying, but it is stronger. Thought I heard music a little bit ago, but only a song or two. Its been mostly talk.





Yaesu FT-847 with Bonito Boni-Whip and Wellbrook ALA100LN loop

Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: BDM on August 01, 2016, 0553 UTC
It's possible you heard W807 out of Chicago. That station runs both political talk and music. I know late last year it was reported this station was off-air. But his FB page indicates he is back on from what I've read.
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: skeezix on August 01, 2016, 1347 UTC
I was kind of thinking it was them, but never was able to hear enough of anything to ID it or even make a good guess.

Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: jFarley on August 01, 2016, 1822 UTC
I currently have the MW loop out of service, but can readily see the carrier with either the Wellbrook or the whip; no audio though.

Next time I am driving through his area I will take a listen on the car radio and report here.
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: Pigmeat on August 02, 2016, 1755 UTC
That sounds like something I hear occasionally there. Chicago would make sense as it would be off the backside of the loop when I'm pointing it SE to try to hear AM pirates in S. Florida.

BTW, last night wasn't bad on the MW band for mid-summer. Very quiet here for this time of year. Early October conditions.
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: Kilokat7 on August 03, 2016, 0137 UTC
That sounds like something I hear occasionally there. Chicago would make sense as it would be off the backside of the loop when I'm pointing it SE to try to hear AM pirates in S. Florida.

South Florida AM pirates?  What are you hearing?!
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: Pigmeat on August 03, 2016, 2342 UTC
Nothing yet, lol. I see different ones cited on the FCC site for violations in the x-band, especially on 1710 so I occasionally give them a try.
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: Skipmuck on August 04, 2016, 0022 UTC
Here in Springfield, MA, we have the Springfield Armory Historic site TIS running 24/7. During the darkness hours I can usually hear the Hudson County TIS under the Springfield Armory TIS. Over the weekend I was hearing some songs played mixing with an OM talking. I thought it might have been the Hudson County TIS, but not entirely certain, as I don't recall the Hudson County TIS playing songs a couple years back before the Springfield Armory TIS started broadcasting.
Haven't heard Radio Celestial since they got the knock...
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: BDM on August 04, 2016, 0522 UTC
I'm hoping this winter brings some MW/1710 activity back
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on August 04, 2016, 1355 UTC
Has anyone regularly monitored 1720 for activity? With all the TIS activity on 1710 now, I wonder if 1720 would have a better chance?

Also, anyone mind if I move this thread over to the new MW Free Radio board?
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: BDM on August 04, 2016, 1402 UTC
Yes but nothing heard 1720, and it is clean. The TIS activity I'm aware of from the east coast, has been fairly weak and with Celestial gone, 1710 at least for me has been fairly clear.
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on August 04, 2016, 1625 UTC
For the fun of it, I took a waterfall recording centered on 1710 from late this morning until just after local Noon (1600z). You can see seven carriers close to 1710, there are several weaker ones, including two at the extreme edges, which are still only around 70 or 80 Hz offset. There's also a squiggly signal. No idea how many of these are actual stations of some sort, vs RFI. I assume most are stations. I'll try to run it again as we get closer to dark, and see how it changes.

(http://i.imgur.com/q1iyeCG.jpg)
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on August 04, 2016, 2117 UTC
I just remembered one problem with 1710... WRCR 1700 in NY spews IBOC onto it, at least the upper carrier.

Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: Kilokat7 on August 05, 2016, 0057 UTC
I just remembered one problem with 1710... WRCR 1700 in NY spews IBOC onto it, at least the upper carrier.


Prior to WRCR, one could use USB on 1710 to dodge adjacent splatter caused from the stations on 1700 and the channel was DX'able (from this location anyway).  As Chris mentioned however, to avoid the IBOC hiss, LSB works better now for 1710 but you have the splatter problem again.  It would seem that 1710 in the Eastern half of the US is fairly useless now for our purposes, but I bet the channel is fairly quiet as you move towards the Western US.  Of course moving up to 1720 gets away from all the garbage, but then you've alienated the crowd of AM listeners that you're probably trying to target anyway as most aren't listening with HF rigs and huge antennas.  Despite all of this, I still continue to keep tabs on 1710/1720 when I'm dialing around the bands.

If this board picks up momentum then I think it might be a good idea to post a sticky here with an up to date list of known active "around the clock" stations on 1710 (pirate or TIS).
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: BDM on August 05, 2016, 0129 UTC
Good idea Kilo ;)
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on August 05, 2016, 1200 UTC
A waterfall screenshot showing what the expanded AM band looks like here, up to about 1750 kHz, taken at 8 AM this morning:

(http://i.imgur.com/mJpeOqz.jpg)
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: EliteData on August 05, 2016, 1327 UTC
is that an actual carrier at 1.720Mhz or just a harmonic of some sort ?
i can see the USB IBOC from 1.700Mhz on 1.710 but what is on LSB at 1.710 ? it looks like another IBOC but weaker, that cant be from 1.700Mhz is it ?
i thought 1.700Mhz only had one IBOC, last i checked it did.
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on August 05, 2016, 1355 UTC
is that an actual carrier at 1.720Mhz or just a harmonic of some sort ?
i can see the USB IBOC from 1.700Mhz on 1.710 but what is on LSB at 1.710 ? it looks like another IBOC but weaker, that cant be from 1.700Mhz is it ?
i thought 1.700Mhz only had one IBOC, last i checked it did.

There's an actual carrier of some sort on 1720.011 kHz. It is still there now (1350z) although weaker. No idea if it is from a station of some sort, or just random RFI.

I ran another quick waterfall looking at the IBOC signals. I can faintly see the signal on 1710 LSB, it does seem to vary in strength in parallel with the known IBOC signals on 1710 USB and 1690 LSB (you can sort of see it on 1690 USB as well). So I would say it is associated with 1700.


(http://i.imgur.com/uGX3jQq.png)
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: EliteData on August 05, 2016, 1419 UTC
1.710Mhz is hopeless for the northeastern coast of the US thanks to WRCR.
maybe night time is slightly better due to WRCR operating at low power but still, it will be a difficult signal (IBOC) to overcome nevertheless for MW pirates.
even though the LSB IBOC is barely there when WRCR is at night time power, it can still be seen and heard on the SDR (i didnt know WRCR was using both IBOC carriers until now)
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: BDM on August 05, 2016, 1437 UTC
IBOC the devil of MW. Not sure why they even bother still, and we also get hammered by this same station in the midwest.
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on August 05, 2016, 1535 UTC
The frequency debate seems to boil down to this (have I missed anything?):

1710:
Pros: Many AM radios can pick up 1710, so in theory non hobbyists can listen.
Cons: QRM from TIS stations, random Spanish language pirates, and WRCR IBOC. Pretty much unusable in the northeast for DX.

1720:
Pros: Quiet. Virtually no activity there now.
Cons: Cannot be received on general purpose radios owned by the average person.

How many non hobbyists listen to above-top-of-the-band AM pirates? My personal feeling is not many, perhaps approaching zero? But others (and I think some operators) say that is not the case, and there are listeners from the general public, or at least they are trying to reach them. In some ways it is like the question as to pirates operating in the "pirate band" (i.e.: 43 meters) vs on random SWBC bands. Operating on the former, you get the known audience of pirate listeners, and with the multiple SDRs running, any operation in the 6800-7000 kHz range usually gets noticed right away. But outside the 43m band, transmissions seem to go mostly unnoticed. It was quite a while before we figured out Radio Illuminati was using 6150. I've heard mixed reports from operators regarding their operations outside 43 meters, both some saying that they rarely if ever get any reports, some have said they do get reports. And there's the question as to what percentage of listeners bother contacting the station with a reception report. There could indeed be lots of listeners, but few if any send a report. It would be interesting to hear directly from stations regarding their experiences with out of [pirate] band operations.  I could be all wet.

I am going to spend a bit more time monitoring the 1700 kHz area, since there seems to be at least some activity on 1710 with that Spanish language pirate. I'm contemplating building some sort of resonant loop antenna for the upper end of MW, for this purpose as well as getting back into DXing TIS stations.
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: BDM on August 05, 2016, 1544 UTC
Good points, and it boils down to the station OPs feeling on the subject. Example, when the Big Q was regularly broadcasting on 1710, the word got out. How many non-hobbyist actually heard their broadcast is open to conjecture. But I know myself, on good nights I could easily hear this station on my car radio. I know a couple of friends also heard the "Q" on car radios after I informed them of the broadcast. But again, how many actually stumbled across that station or even cared about what they heard is probably few to none.

Hobbyist such as ourselves are the norm, so I'd say 1720 is always going to be the better choice in the end. Just my 2 cents ;)
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: EliteData on August 17, 2016, 0238 UTC
Chris, there is definitely something else there on the upper side of 1710Khz and it cant the IBOC from WRCR, see screenshot.
if it was the IBOC from WRCR, wouldnt i see it on the lower side of 1690Khz ?
all the other stations that have IBOC have it on the upper and lower sides, not just on one side.

Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: ChrisSmolinski on August 17, 2016, 1716 UTC
I've seen IBOC on both 1710 USB and 1690 LSB, they fade in and out at the same time and along with the WRCR signal, in fact it was there earlier this morning when I checked. I agree that the signal on 1690 is not always there, perhaps they switch it off at times (I don't know all the details about IBOC).
Title: Re: UNID 1710 kHz AM 0226 UTC Aug 1, 2016
Post by: EliteData on August 21, 2016, 0847 UTC
I've seen IBOC on both 1710 USB and 1690 LSB, they fade in and out at the same time and along with the WRCR signal, in fact it was there earlier this morning when I checked. I agree that the signal on 1690 is not always there, perhaps they switch it off at times (I don't know all the details about IBOC).
it would seem kind of nefarious to me for WRCR to switch off the IBOC LSB at nighttime low power operation and leave the IBOC USB on (in my previous screen shot attachment)
i dont see any real purpose to operate in this manner other than to disrupt DX reception at 1710Khz but if their purpose and reason is that 1710khz would carry their IBOC in the clear better than 1690Khz, then so be it.
yes one could use LSB SAM with adjustable bandwidth notch filters to avoid the splatter from the USB IBOC and from WRCR but this would be detrimental to the received audio quality in general on 1710khz.
despite all this, i still believe there is something else operating at 1710 USB that isnt coming from WRCR at night.