HFU HF Underground
Loggings => Spy Numbers => Topic started by: 4405486 on June 02, 2010, 2103 UTC
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Here San Luis Obispo, California I have some HF-GCS observations. I don't know much about this; TNX AGN Token for ID'ing.
in progress 11,175 kHZ USB 23:19-23:21 UTC June 1 2010
phonetic letters; fair signal through heavy local broadband QRM
in progress 13,200 kHz USB 23:29-23:33 UTC June 1 2010
phonetic letters, occassional number, "I say again", "Stand-by"
distinctive final dual tone pips- good signal
in progress 13,200 kHz USB 23:49-00:03 UTC June 1-June 2 2010
noted final dual pips sent twice between small amount of traffic
complete transmission, simultaneously on:
13,200 kHz, 11,175 kHZ, 15,016 kHz ALL USB 00:15-00:18 UTC June 2 2010
Identifying final dual pips, good signals.
My impression is that these are un-recorded messages, read by operators who don't know the actual content. As this appears to be one-time encryption, usually reserved for the most sensitive traffic, I consider these Number Stations. Unlike typical Numbers Stations that tend to transmit on the hour or the half on some fixed schedule these transmissions to the best of my limited knowledge have no fixed schedule.
Try: 4724 kHz, 6739 kHz, 8992 kHz, 11175 kHz, 13200 kHz and 15016 kHz ALL USB
I have had the best luck so far on 13200 kHz USB; sooner or later you will observe it.
Cheers
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Been listening in on 8992 & 11175 for years. I'll punch in the others you posted. Thanks!
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Try: 4724 kHz, 6799 kHz...
So THAT's what those two are!
I had them in memory under "odds" :D
Peace!
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I don't remember the date or exact freq but i think it was 6850 not sure tho i like the slight ECHO effect i hear these stations all the time
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This excellent recording from outhouse has evidently been deleted; I can no longer download it. Hope it turns up again.
I think Outhouse radio is located in England; but, not sure.
Lack of turbulence indicated to me that echo effect was most likely due to the simultaneous reception of the same signal from several different transmitter (Relay?) sites and resultant time delays. Noted what sounded like to me was slight Teletype Machine Co-Channel interference in background- sounds a little different in SSB Mode.
Basic Internet search will provide some information and audio files; as will youtube.
I have read that this system is remotely controlled from Andrews AFB; I wonder if this is over the Internet?
I get the impression that these frequencies are primarily used for Air Craft. I would assume these Airplanes fly lower than the Ionized Propagation Layers. Must be quite a vast, intricate System.
Cheers
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OOOPS I accidently deleted that recording from media fire i will look for it in my audio files when i find it i will repost it you may want to save it as i clear my stuff off of mediafire often
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OK here it is again someone needs to save this i will more than likely delete it again http://www.mediafire.com/?hqx3ymmjkhw
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Activity on 11.175 has been noted for 20 years + .... lots of traffic tonight, I notice.
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This is new and intersting to me. I did not know about this until just recently; quite fascinating.
Observed quite a bit of activity these frequencies the last few days.
Evidently, this is yesterday's news for many; for the rest of us, if someone could permanently record Mr. Outhouse Radio's excellent and representative audio file it would be helpful. Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment or expertise. I opened up an account in Mediafire and have attempted to file the audio sample; ditto on a flashdrive- not going to hold my breath on either attempt.
Understandably, there is not much information about this System; nor should there be; but it is interesting to observe.
At any rate, there are other recordings on the Internet and youtube.
TNX VY 73 ..
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Hello!
8992khz USB has been very active today. It seems to be running on the half hour. I've heard it starting 23:00z to 4:00z (current time as i write this). I'm in Toronto, Canada. Its been mostly phonetic alphabet with the some numbers and phrases like ' I'll say again'. I get the impression the man reading the message is from southern US, based on the accent.
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It appears I have succesfully saved this recording on my flashdrive and medafile account. Couldn't repeat it if I had to, just play around with it long enough and odds are sooner or later you will be able to file it, if interested. I am not much of a "Tech Gadgeteer" when it comes to this sort of thing.
I am useing a computer at the local Cal Poly Tech/Farm School here in San Luis Obispo, California- Outdated Browser and sticky keyboard- unbelievable. A semester of "Charm School" should be required for graduation.
Again, not much about this system on Internet- these listings and comments do show up in a general search.
Must close young scholar across the way, chews here gum like a Heifer- reinstate the Draft maybe?
I'm out of here-CHEERS.
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chews here gum like a Hefer <<<<<<<<<< LOL Good One !!! OK GUYS here is one from 6739 Aeronautical Off Route Frequency US Air Force Worldwide USB Global HF System Primary I can't remember how long ago this was but it is a very good recording with a FEMALE operator http://www.mediafire.com/?dwvigj5yydm
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4724 Aeronautical Off Route Frequency US Air Force Worldwide USB Global HF System Primary ---- 8992 Aeronautical Off Route Frequency US Air Force Worldwide USB Global HF System Primary ------ 11175 Aeronautical Off Route Frequency US Air Force Worldwide USB Global HF System Primary ------13200 Aeronautical Off Route Frequency US Air Force Worldwide USB Global HF System Primary ----- 15016 Aeronautical Off Route Frequency US Air Force Worldwide USB Global HF System Primary ------ are you sure your 6799 isn't 6800 instead ?? ----- 6800 HF SHARES Network US Government Nationwide USB/ALE there are a lot more freqs that you will hear these kind of broadcasts on years ago i had heard them in the 25-26 mhz range strange stuff indeed im still looking to see if i have anymore audio files left i had 40-50 before the computer crashed some did not survive and a lot got deleted by the guy who built this computer around my harddrives if i find more i will post them OutHouse Radio
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I stand corrected; that should be 6739.0 kHz USB. These frequencies are from the Wikipedia article.
I have read a little about the VLF component of this system; can't help extrapolating that this in it's totality is one vast, intricate system.
My skills are outdated; but I repaired communications equipment in the
Miliatary- Went to KG 13 Crypto school at Lackland and yes I did carry a rifle and a bayonet, kids.
Cheers.
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I briefly glanced at a page, that to me suggests the complexity of this system.
Will read in depth when I can find the time.
Several ways to find it, name of the page is: "Radio waves below 22 kHZ"
click on the lower right link: "Reception of Submarine comminication systems"
by: R. Romero and V. Lehtoranta. Enlarge the pictures, especially the second- food for thought.
I initialy googled VLF and clicked on the Wikipedia article regarding Very Low Frequencies. One of the links at the bottom is: :"Radio waves below 22 kHz"
I was a 2819 KG 13TtyTech USMC 1973-1977 I was in the rear with the gear.
Carried a rifle and bayonet for 13 weeks in boot camp; damn things get heavy- backcharge them for my lower back.
Cheers
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Best information I have found so far: Google- EAM (Emergency Action Message) Monitoring Times Article
Evidently, the Echo effect is intentional; for reasons that escape me?
I'm new at this c'mon you guys with decades of Monitoring and Analysis experience, you can do better than that. I'm all Ears.
Behind that lack of context, lies an extraordinary System. Cheers.
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I tend to be a skeptic and critical thinker; Have to find out for myself. While waiting for my lower back to unsieze, have been spending time looking into this. This Alpha/Numeric combination does show up enough to reasonably satisfy me that this is used for command and control. Have been looking at some of these systems. I have taken the AMTRAC Train through Vandenburgh AFB and wondered about some of those structures, now I know. Appears to be a new openess; amazing what you can find on the Internet; furthermore, if It's there for public consumption I'm going there. The exception appears to be the NSA, very disappointing <YAWN>.
I hope those involved in decision and policy making know what the Hell they are doing? I for one am not so sure.
Cheers.
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I tend to be a skeptic and critical thinker; Have to find out for myself. While waiting for my lower back to unsieze, have been spending time looking into this. This Alpha/Numeric combination does show up enough to reasonably satisfy me that this is used for command and control. ...
You know, those used to be go/no go 'codes' for the SAC B-52 bombers that were third 'prong' on the triad of nuclear deterrence (the other two prongs being nuke subs and the missiles in silos)
One would hear the words: "Skybird skybird, do not answer message follows" followed by groups of characters and then an authentication block ...
Those messages used to be as prolific as grackles ... anybody who was SWLing in the 80's and 90's can confirm.
A good example would the Peter Sellers movie "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb" where they are seen decoding messages.
In case anybody is wondering what we are talking about:
http://www.wizzler.com/video/fTZuJQ4xtE0/HF-GCS-EAM-Emergency-Action-Message.html
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Evidently, the Echo effect is intentional; for reasons that escape me?
The echo is caused most commonly in this specific system by sending the same signal from multiple transmitters at the same time. The different distances to each transmitter from you mean different arrival times to your location. Arrival times differing by as little as 2 milliseconds can be detected by the human ear. 6.18 microseconds is the time it takes RF to travel one mile. Distances differing to two transmitter sites by 300 miles (one transmitter being 300 miles further form the receiver than the other transmitter) would result in about 2 milliseconds difference in arrival time. Greater distance deltas equate to larger timing deltas.
Echos can also be caused by differing paths from one transmitter to a given receiver. RF can take more than one path from point A to point B.
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Thank you all for the information and recording. I am finding this quite interesting.
Youtube is very helpful. Might want to see: "How to Launch a Nuclear Missile"(5:12 long) note the Tour Guide, when he mentions the preamble: "Birds of the Air, or something like that".
Also, old documentary: "First Strike" with authentic personnel is insightful; especialy (part1).
Evidently, I am reading too much into this "echo" effect; however in the Monitoring Times article: " What is an EAM?" there is a reference made that I don't understand, but is nonetheless interesting. Near the bottom in the 04 APRIL 2005 update section it says in reference to the echo rotation callup: " they were no longer 'aliased' (as in IDing) and at least two new stations were added to the echo rotation callup." The term "aliased" as it is used here, I for some reason can't quite grasp. Oh well, it's not important; but it is that reference that made me think there possibly might be something more to this echo effect.
Do to the fact that this is part of an extraordinay System, and in the interests of obtaining some sense of this. I mentioned in reply #14 a illustration that contains numerous miliatary platforms (politicaly correct way of saying it, I still can't bring myself to say the "N" word;
NU[. . .]LEAR) at any rate, as deficient as this drawing is I have looked into some of these systems that are depicted and found it interesting. As a treat, I recommend the youtube video: "JointSTARS.wmv (2:54 long). This features the nondescript looking airplane in the depiction- gets my juices flowing- enjoy. Cheers.
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(Ref. a) Evidently, I am reading too much into this "echo" effect;
(Ref b) As a treat, I recommend the youtube video: "JointSTARS.wmv (2:54 long). This features the nondescript looking airplane in the depiction- gets my juices flowing- enjoy. Cheers.
Ref. to (a) above - Anybody here heard 'round the world echo on 20 Meters ? ... it's an awesome phenom to behold, and today with propagation 'in the ditch' so to speak it will be hard to demonstrate 'live', but when things are good it's not that rare. The echoes from the DOD's multisite-originated multicast/simulcast system are due to the time delay the other poster pointed out; the delays could also be due to satellite echo delay, I say, I do not know as a certainty, but, if using geostationary sats for links the time delay to and from the geo sats are not insignificant either ...
For some HF echo, round-the-earth paths of recordings check out: http://www.aa5tb.com/recordings.html the section titled: "Radio Echoes - Short and Long Path"
Ref. to (b) above - JSTARS is pretty impressive, it is quite amazing the detail that can be 'rendered' when you pepper a target area with a nearly continuous barrage of short, interspersed RADAR pulses then work with both the Doppler shifts imposed plus the amplitudes returned and integrating the returns over time ... the effect is as if you had a much larger, more sharply defined RADAR antenna, leading to the term SAR (Synthetic Aperture RADAR) ... the rendered detail can be quite amazing ...
Just to be clear: JSTARS <> AWACS
AWACS - rotating dish on top, meant for detection and control/direction of aircraft in the 'theater'
JSTARS - longish stationary pod attached/beneath the aircraft, meant to look at targets (kinda sideways to the aircraft, not straight down) on the ground ..
Edit: Update JSTARS desrip.
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Ref. to (a) above - Anybody here heard 'round the world echo on 20 Meters ?
Often in the past, and several times recently. I even have some recordings of it around someplace, including SDR recordings that allow you to see it happening on multiple stations.
The most interesting echo or delay I have ever seen happened a couple of years ago on 80M. Conditions were extremely long and a few of us noticed very, very, heavy echos on each others transmissions, far heavier and longer than I have ever heard on 20M. Playing around I found that I could slap the desk mic switch making a very audible "crack" during a very short transmission. I could hear my own "crack" echoing back, like a radar pulse. At times I could hear multiple copies echoing back. Unfortunately I got no recordings of that, it would have been very interesting to measure the delay. I am convinced the delay was possibly more than the ~135 msec max of circling the Earth at the longest distance. While only a guess, as no measurements were taken, it felt closer to half a second.
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Ref. to (a) above - Anybody here heard 'round the world echo on 20 Meters ?
Often in the past, and several times recently. I even have some recordings of it around someplace, including SDR recordings that allow you to see it happening on multiple stations.
The most interesting echo or delay I have ever seen happened a couple of years ago on 80M. Conditions were extremely long and a few of us noticed very, very, heavy echos on each others transmissions, far heavier and longer than I have ever heard on 20M. Playing around I found that I could slap the desk mic switch making a very audible "crack" during a very short transmission. I could hear my own "crack" echoing back, like a radar pulse. At times I could hear multiple copies echoing back. Unfortunately I got no recordings of that, it would have been very interesting to measure the delay. I am convinced the delay was possibly more than the ~135 msec max of circling the Earth at the longest distance. While only a guess, as no measurements were taken, it felt closer to half a second.
Interesting observations ... I've only heard personally the phenom on 20 M some years back ...
This last winter 80 Meters got really, really long on a regular basis, the time station from S. America on 8410, as noted here, was easily heard:
http://www.hfunderground.com/board/index.php/topic,823.0.html
... but no long distance echo effects were observed/heard.
On the subject of LDE (Long Duration Echoes), here's some info on Wikipedia I had not seen before and so I'll post a link (so I can come back later and do some deeper reading when I have time too):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_delayed_echo
And another personal observation from an individual, with his own theories, perhaps a bit outside the 'mainstream' view, but hey, that's how science progresses (observe a phenomenon, propose a hypothesis, prove it or disprove it and possibly it becomes a theory):
http://www.eskimo.com/~nanook/radio/2006/12/long-delayed-echo-radio-phenomena.html
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>>Long delayed echo<< Now that is a really interesting thing to witness first hand I personally have heard 4 repeats on of all things 11 meters !!! Also around the same time a cb op had set up a simplex repeater(MFJ) in the 11m band Late at night it would start picking up the Long delayed Echo it would retrasmit the echo and keep going until they shut it off or the LDE would fade out I wish i had a recording of it BTW the simplex repeater was in mexico
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Receiver: Grundig G6 Aviator
Anntenna: Telescoping Rod
Place of Reception: Northeastern United States
Date: 07/23/2010
Time: 0540 UTC
Frequency: 8992 kHz SSB
http://www.zshare.net/audio/78596027bcd2fc06/
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Sounds like yours are much more intelligible than the ones I receive here.
On your recording, you have one transmitter that is clearly dominant, with the other one being a weak echo. Here in upstate NC, on a wire with a predominantly north-south pattern, I usually receive two strong signals with very similar strengths, making them somewhat difficult to read at times.
http://www.zshare.net/audio/78607374b381097a/ (http://www.zshare.net/audio/78607374b381097a/)
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Heard 7/23/10 on 8.992, 11.175, 13.200, and 15.016 at 20:00 UTC. Best reception on 15.016 at my location.