HFU HF Underground
Loggings => VHF/UHF Logs, including satellites and radiosondes => Topic started by: R4002 on August 22, 2018, 1105 UTC
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Since we're more than halfway into August at this point I figured I'd start a new thread:
162.425 - possibly WZ2527 Fredericksburg, VA and another station two stations mixing in - nearly equal signal strength
162.450 - KZZ28 coming in with maybe WNG538 or WZ2500 underneath, unable to ID weaker station
162.500 - WNG586 Henderson, NC (98 miles / 158 km straightline distance from RX location) SIO 555 at 0645 local time
162.550 - KHB36 (85 miles away) vs. KHB37 (82 miles away) heard Chesapeake Bay forecast
162.400 and 162.525 had unidentifiable signals on them, but they were too weak to get any sort of clues as to which station(s) they were. 162.500 was full quieting at tune-in but suffered from extreme fading as I drove through downtown...at points completely dropping down into the noise and then back up again. It was SIO 555 for its ID / callsign.
162.475 is the local NOAA Weather Radio station, WXK65, transmitting from a tower roughly 7-8 miles from my receive location with 1000 watts power output. It is full scale even with a handheld radio's antenna disconnected. Very strong transmitter and will mix in with intermod from a VHF paging network on 152.690 MHz, including one site that is less than 2 city blocks from my receive site doing 500 watts TX power from a high-rise rooftop.
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Is there a particular time of the day you tend to get reception of distant NOAA stations? I'll give it a try sometime, but with all the channels occupied here by local and and local stations, it could be tough for a DX station to overpower one of them.
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Early morning (from 0600 to 0700 local time) seems to be the best for me anyway. I noticed yesterday afternoon (around 1600 local time) however, that KHB36 out of Manassas, VA on 162.550 MHz was coming in full quieting SIO 555, with no trace of KHB37 which usually mixes in (KHB36 and KHB37 are almost equal distance away from me) so there must have been a better tropopheric ducting path due north. This was right before some thunderstorms rolled through too so unsettled weather seems to help a lot.
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My knowledge of the mechanism of tropo is sktechy at best, but I understand it is often driven by weather systems, such as fronts and inversions. It would be fun to put up a directional FM/TV antenna, except since I am in a bit of a valley, not sure how well that would work out.
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I suspect your beam in the valley will do fine, the ducting will still be there, as well as knife edging effects from the surrounding hills.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife-edge_effect
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I suspect your beam in the valley will do fine, the ducting will still be there, as well as knife edging effects from the surrounding hills.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife-edge_effect
Indeed. A VHF/UHF TV/FM beam would probably give you excellent results for FM broadcast band tropo DXing. Even a dedicated FM band beam (which would be smaller than a full size TV beam) would do the same.
From what I've observed, the morning right after sunrise seems to be the best time for NOAA Weather Radio and other VHF high band tropo activity. My experience is limited to my commute to/from work and my car is equipped with a VHF high band transceiver only (at least mounted in the vehicle). Unfortunately I park in a parking deck and it has very low clearance...a 5/8 wave VHF whip is out of the question, even mounted on the trunk. I use a trunk-mounted 1/4 wave VHF whip and it works very well, even though I know its a compromise and it would perform better on the roof.
Chris, since you're running a dipole mounted high above ground level, you're in a better position I would think. Check out the 150-174 MHz band between 0600 and 0800 local time and see how many signals pop up out of the noise (not just the NOAA Weather Radio frequencies either!)
Another thing to check would be the five MURS frequencies (151.820 MHz, 151.880 MHz, 151.940 MHz, 154.570 MHz and 154.600 MHz). I used to have a base station set up on VHF for 2 meter FM and MURS and would notice when the band was open all sorts of data bursts would come in (usually just enough to break the squelch, but sometimes stronger...) on the first three 151 MHz channels...if the band was really open data link systems could be heard on all five MURS frequencies, sometimes multiple systems on the same channel. Seems like they default to channel 1 (151.8200 MHz). With 2 watts and unlimited antenna gain some of these data link systems really get out. The most common seems to be a simple burst every couple seconds.
Of course, there's also voice on the MURS frequencies in addition to data. Certainly a worthy monitoring target when the VHF band is open.
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I'm using a discone up at the top of a tree ;D 162.450 seems to have several signals, although one is dominant, waiting for an ID now... aha one of the local transmitters run by NWS Sterling VA.
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Probably WNG736 on 162.450 MHz out of Washington, D.C. at 300 watts transmitter power, or KZZ28 also on 162.450 MHz out of Covesville, VA on Mount Oliver (near Charlottesville, VA) at 1000 watts transmitter power. WNG736 is your best bet though.
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Indeed, I finally heard the WNG736 ID.
I remember years ago hearing hunters on the FRS channels. Now that I have a better/higher discone, I will have to check those frequencies out more often.
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Indeed. With the hunting season right around the corner, the FRS/GMRS, MURS and VHF marine band frequencies will be active with hunter chatter - with your discone-in-a-tree setup you'll probably be able to hear a lot.
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A long, long time ago, I used to DX VHF TV & FM via ducting in the morning. This mode of propagation needs a temperature inversion.
So far (in 2018), I haven't noticed anything here. In 2017, I did get 87.7 from Chicago (https://www.hfunderground.com/board/index.php/topic,36241.0.html) all the way up here (that's logged on HFU somewhere).
Since then during spring through fall, I check when I drive to work for them. But nothing since.
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Driving to work this morning (0645 local time to 0655 local time - 1045 UTC to 1055 UTC) heard a decent opening on VHF:
162.400 MHz - a total mess, several stations going at once, S5-S7 signal, but unable to ID anything
162.425 MHz - another mess, weaker signals but unable to ID anything
162.450 MHz - KZZ28 fighting with another UNID station, very strong signals
162.475 MHz - WXK65 (local station)
162.500 MHz - WNG586 - Henderson, NC - 300 watts - SIO 555 full scale signal with another UNID station underneath it
162.525 MHz - KJY99 vs. WNG537, heard forecast for Albemarle Sound as well as Delaware beaches, full scale
162.550 MHz - another mess, at least 3 stations coming in at once, heard KHB36 ID and mention of northeast North Carolina
WNG586 on 162.500 MHz is 100 miles / 161 km from my receive location and only transmitting 300 watts.
KJY99 in Accomack, VA is 98 miles / 157 km away from my receive location, they're basically right on the water and are transmitting 1000 watts, WNG537 Windsor, NC is 110 miles / 178 km away transmitting 300 watts.
I then started to scan the rest of VHF (didn't have a lot of time) but heard DMR digital voice/data traffic on 151.565 MHz, 151.775 MHz as well as analog voice on 151.595 MHz, 151.625 MHz, 151.700 MHz and 151.955 MHz. Lots of paging signals and P25 digital signals in the 152 MHz region. 152.120 MHz, 152.180 MHz, 152.630 MHz and 152.690 MHz had strong paging signals on them. I checked the 152.0075 and 163.250 on-site hospital paging frequencies and those frequencies were clear.
Strong Project 25 digital signals on 152.0625 MHz, 152.0975 MHz, 152.1575 MHz, 152.5775 MHz and 152.7125 MHz - all of these are part of the Virginia STARS public safety P25 VHF digital system.
Considering how humid it is this morning there could be a decent temperature inversion going on the East Coast right now...
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Wow , I did not see this until today. Thanks for the extension..
Haven't had much time at all for radio recently.
Hearing Salisbury and stations North this am , and have noted casually one last week was edging out local KHB37 .
wx Bermuda High mid 90s no wind
8/29/18 KIG77 162.475 Cape Hatteras NC Buxton/ weak 1500 UTC 112mi
8/29/18 KHB38. 162.400 Atlantic City NJ / weak 1500 UTC 193mi
8/30/18 no stations 1400 UT
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Davep,
It seems like the early morning is the best time (at least this time of the year) for these tropo VHF propagation catches. All 7 WX frequencies were alive with activity when I flipped the radio on this morning. Even as I drove into the parking garage I could hear KHB36 at full scale SIO 555 for a few moments before the concrete and steel completely blocked the signals of everything except the local station.
When I park on the roof of the parking deck (7 stories up) the intermod on both VHF and UHF bands is very strong. VHF paging systems combined with numerous high power analog and digital land mobile systems in the 450-470 MHz range make casual scanning from that location right in the middle of downtown very difficult.
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Another morning drive with all 7 NOAA WX frequencies full of stations...seems to be a more or less daily occurrence! 162.550 was impossible to make out, 162.525 was KGY99 with another station underneath, 162.500 had two stations more or less equal signal..same with 162.450, 162.425 and 162.400 MHz. 162.400 seemed to have three different stations going at once, but the S-meter never made it more than halfway up the scale.
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I'm keeping everything under a single post on the first page . Might be easier to relate to conditions. Nothing less than 100miles
I'll be using the scanner ,built in rod antenna
Re: weather conditions - I really couldn't come up with any specific conditions that directly correlated to reception of DX .
It occurred during widespread windy as well as failed during conditions you'd expect if you look at June July logs. It seems complex and would take time to gather conditions over the length of the distance and other complications such as the micro climates that exist around bodies of water and etc. However these conditions must be common in certain areas by the reports so far
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Makes sense - unfortunately a lot of the DX heard during the morning drive to work is UNID simply because I'm hearing multiple stations at once and there's no clear "winner".
I think the morning produces temperature inversions this time of year, add unsettled weather conditions (fronts moving in, etc.) and it seems to at least make some sort of a difference with VHF band DX.
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I noticed this on the Sterling VA NWS Site (Baltimore/DC), it might be worth checking your local NWS site(s) to see when transmitters will be off the air, which could provide some DXing opportunities. Check the "Public Information Statement", here is the link for Sterling: https://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=NWS&issuedby=LWX&product=PNS&format=CI&version=1&glossary=0&highlight=off
...PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT...
The Manassas NOAA Weather Radio Transmitter KHB-36 located in
Manassas Virginia, broadcasting on a frequency of 162.550
megahertz, will be out of service until Monday afternoon due to
onsite construction.
The Baltimore NOAA Weather Radio Transmitter KEC-83 located in
Pikesville Maryland, broadcasting on a frequency of 162.400
megahertz, will be out of service from 11 PM Saturday September
1st until 5 AM Sunday September 2nd. Maintenance will be
performed on the transmitter.
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Even better, a site with a map of outages: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/outages/outages.php
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Strong propagation between 0645 local (eastern US time) and 0655 local this morning 5 Sept 2018
162.400 MHz - KEC83 Baltimore, MD positive ID SIO 444 with another UNID station underneath
162.425 MHz - possibly WZ2527 Fredericksburg, VA very strong signal at points, then disappeared into the QRM
162.450 MHz - KZZ28 mixing with WWG33 Margaretsville, NC almost equal signal (!!)
162.475 MHz - [local station]
162.500 MHz - WNG586 Henderson, NC very strong around 0650 local, then completely faded away
162.525 MHz - KJY86 mixing with possible WWG82 or another station, heard "South Carolina" at one point, poor copy
162.550 MHz - KHB37 vs. KHB36 (the usual suspects) and a third UNID station underneath them, heard "northern Virginia mountain forecast" and discussion of Chesapeake Bay
Other VHF band frequencies active:
151.1825 MHz - Project 25 digital control channel (Virginia STARS system)
151.5950 MHz - DMR digital voice/data, weak
151.6250 MHz - trucking company comms, heard mention of Interstate 64 (possibly locals)
151.7150 MHz - weak voice heard, possibly schools?
151.7450 MHz - DMR digital voice/data, strong signal S9 peaks
151.7750 MHz - DMR digital voice/data - probably WQAU724 King George County, VA Public Schools 199.5 watts ERP
151.9850 MHz - DMR digital voice/data
152.0225 MHz - Project 25 digital control channel (Virginia STARS system)
152.0375 MHz - Project 25 digital control channel (Virginia STARS system)
152.1575 MHz - Project 25 digital control channel (Virginia STARS system)
152.1800 MHz - POCSAG Paging, S-5 peaks with rapid fading
152.2175 MHz - Project 25 digital control channel - weak (Virginia STARS system)
152.2625 MHz - what sounded like two different analog NFM voice systems at once, heavy fading
152.2850 MHz - DMR digital voice/data - lots of rapid fading
152.2850 MHz - DMR digital voice/data - very strong (possibly local)
152.2925 MHz - analog NFM voice repeater, possibly schools
152.3000 MHz - local taxi cab company dispatch (KLU448) on top of DMR digital voice/data
152.3075 MHz - DMR digital voice/data, weak
152.5175 MHz - Project 25 digital control channel (Virginia STARS system)
152.6300 MHz - POCSAG Paging, local signals and distant ones heard w/fading
152.6900 MHz - POCSAG Paging, similar to 152.630 MHz
152.7125 MHz - Project 25 digital control channel (Virginia STARS system)
152.7875 MHz - Project 25 digital control channel (Virginia STARS system)
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Very nice on the SC.
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Another opportunity for catching some tropo will be the ARRL VHF contest coming up this weekend. "The second full weekend of September. Begins 1800 UTC Saturday and ends 0259 UTC Monday (September 8-10, 2018)." More info at ARRL.org: http://www.arrl.org/september-vhf
There is a tropo group in the eastern US that gets together at 7:30 local on 50.145 usb.
Also I have caught some tropo openings listening to railroads on VHF and hearing distant defect detectors. They automatically announce the railroad, mile marker, car count, and if any defects were noted. Look for hot bearings and dragging equipment. I usually listen to CSX on the broadcastify Folkston, GA receiver.
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The VHF railroad frequencies 160.200 MHz to 161.565 MHz in 15 kHz steps / 7.5 kHz steps - or 159.910 MHz to 161.610 MHz in Canada are another good monitoring target. Most of the traffic seems to be simplex with a repeater scattered here and there. There's several active yard frequencies in my area that traffic can regularly be heard on, all of it carrier squelch.
While in the car during my lunch break today scanning the VHF/UHF business frequencies I noticed higher-than-average activity on the VHF freqs, including data link or telemetry signals on 151.880 (MURS channel 2), 151.940 (MURS channel 3) and 154.600 (MURS channel 5). There was also some voice activity on these frequencies (with CTCSS or DCS tone squelch though, of course) and it all seemed like the typical construction-site handheld radio type deal stuff. These data links are all supposed to be running 2 watts but with a good antenna mounted high I know they have some range to them....the fact that I only hear them during certain times and there's variation in signal strength means they are far enough away from me to be affected by VHF propagation conditions.
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Not hearing much tropo , and I have been checking Not like it was , only nearby and mostly at night.
Should be some epic KHB37 loops coming up. It's notorious for going out during wind events though.
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Even listening to the local WX station WXK65 out of Richmond I heard the same hurricane forecast loop played on 6501 kHz (at least part of it!) and then the marine forecast "tropical storm conditions" and "hurricane conditions" for Wednesday/Thursday/Friday. Since there's some overlap between WXK65 and KHB37 (and they're both controlled by the Wakefield, VA weather forecast office [AKQ]) it would make sense.
Hopefully there won't be any NOAA Weather Radio outages due to Florence, but you never know. The next few days will certainly offer up some epic NOAA WX radio transmissions if the forecast continues the way it is now...
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This morning I heard hurricane/tropical storm forecast for the North Carolina beaches and Carrituck Sound coming in nice and loud on 162.525 MHz - WNG537 Windsor, NC and a mixture of several stations on 162.425 (possibly WWH26) and, of course, the usual suspects on 162.550 MHz (KHB36 and KHB37) and 162.400 MHz. Heard more hurricane-related forecasts and warnings on 162.400 (possibly KEC84 mixing in with other, closer, stations). 162.450 had KZZ28 coming in at S7 or so, nearly full scale at points due to rapid QSB and QRM from another UNID station on the same frequency.
On another note, the VDEM legacy statewide disaster frequency of 155.895 MHz [91.5 Hz CTCSS/PL] popped up with testing. VDEM's talkgroups on the statewide Project 25 digital VHF system - STARS - have been quite active, including some encrypted traffic heard on VDEM OPS 1. Dave, you may be able to hear 155.895 in Virginia Beach if the conditions are right, FCC license KVJ989 shows an ERP of 1000 watts for all locations on 155.895 and 155.820 MHz. VDEM will likely stick to the STARS system while keeping 155.895 available as a backup.
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I'll try the 155.
Oh man! The 200z 9/12ut loop is making me paranoid. Interesting they are giving the position in Atlantic Standard time
I better shut up for now, we're starting to get some bad vibes here
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The latest forecast "cone of uncertainty" now shows the storm as being predicted to turn further south and spare Virginia the brunt of the wind effects anyway. Looks like rain is now the biggest hazard for points north of the VA-NC state line. Of course, if these computer models are right, the storm will grind to a halt right above SC/NC/VA and just drop all the rain for several days which won't be good either.
Back on topic, I checked the NOAA Weather Radio frequencies this morning (0645-0700 local time) and only heard the two locals, WXK65 on 162.475 MHz and KZZ28 on 162.450 MHz. There was something coming in on 162.400 and 162.550 but way too weak to make any sort of ID out.
I haven't heard anything else on 155.895 (VDEM VHF Legacy channel - "Virginia EOC") since the testing the other day. Chances are they'll stick to STARS unless there's a compelling reason to use the backup gear...which would make sense (make sure the backup systems are operational before you need them...) They still have their HF-SSB system, VHF low band system (37.100 MHz, 39.500 MHz and of course SIRS on 39.540 MHz) in addition to VHF high band analog, UHF analog, the national interop frequencies and STARS.
As the storm gets closer we may get some more ducting DX opportunities (maybe tomorrow morning?) Local school systems have already closed for Friday in the Richmond metro area.
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Thanks for the note.
I think we're ok as of Wednesday's prediction.
The KHB37 loop was verbatim of the website "key messages"
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at1+shtml/092830.shtml?key_messages#contents
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Pretty ominous messages....
Still, it looks like Virginia is going to be spared the majority of the scary stuff though...at the NHC track guidance moves further and further south with each update...
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Did some VHF scanning this morning (0645-0655 local time) and unfortunately the band wasn't as open as it usually is. I did tune to 162.550 to hear a mixture of several stations (likely the usual suspects of KHB36 and KHB37) - I then crested a hill and KHB37 came in full scale SIO 555 for several seconds, I heard "in the hurricane warning areas" loud and clear, completely blocking out QRM from other stations on frequency...then the signal strength went back down and the frequency became an unintelligible mess again.
162.450 had the local-ish station (KZZ28) on it with another, UNID station that was clearly underneath. During pauses I could hear hurricane-related words on 162.450 but was unable to get an ID due to the strength of KZZ28 dominating the frequency.
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WNG586 out of Henderson, NC coming in nearly full scale SIO 444 or so this morning, 0645-0655 local time on 162.500 MHz with positive ID callsign heard. 162.550 MHz was a real mess, as usual during band openings. Oddly enough, 162.400 and 162.425 were both basically quiet. Nothing to be made out and those frequencies are usually just as busy.
Also heard KJY86 pop in for a little bit while scanning the band. Noticed P25 digital traffic on 161.925 MHz, 161.900 MHz and 161.825 MHz as well. These are marine duplex radiotelephone frequencies that have been re-purposed for land mobile use, in this case as part of the Virginia STARS statewide VHF trunking public safety system.
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Left for work early this morning, parked on the top floor of the parking deck (7 stories up) and did some NOAA Weather Radio VHF monitoring:
162.400 MHz - WXM57 Heathsville, VA strong signal with positive ID and Hurricane Michael forecast
162.425 MHz - several stations at once with squelch opened, heard discussion of flash flooding, possible WWH26
162.450 MHz - WWG33 actually coming in over KZZ28 for a few moments, heard mention of Halifax County, NC
162.475 MHz - local station WXK65
162.500 MHz - WNG586 Henderson, NC with clear ID SIO 444 signal at peaks
162.525 MHz - WNG537 Windsor, NC with Hurricane Michael forecast and flash flood watch w/positive ID heard SIO 333
162.550 MHz - heard "tidal Potomac River" (likely KHB36) mixing in with more hurricane stuff (likely KHB37)
Also noted very strong paging signals on 152.630 (distant - dozens of sites on the Blue Ridge and points west), 152.690 (local) and a weaker paging signal on 152.690 (S5 signal strength while the local pager wasn't blasting away). Distant paging signal from 152.120 also coming in SIO 555. While there are several local licenses for 152.630 MHz and 152.690 MHz, searching the FCC DB brings back no active licenses on 152.120 in Virginia. There's four licenses for 152.120 in North Carolina, presuming the paging signal I heard there was coming from points south...
STARS P25 digital from Fork Mountain, VA on 152.7125 was coming in at S7 consistently. Chesapeake STARS P25 CC signal on 152.1575 also coming in at nearly full scale. Virginia Beach site (152.5175 MHz) wavering between S5 and S7.
Equipment used:
TYT TH-9000D VHF 136-174 MHz mobile transceiver (Chinese clone of the Alinco DR-135 series)
1/4 wave VHF whip (NMO mount trunklip mount) with Chevrolet sedan ground plane ;)