HFU HF Underground
Loggings => VHF/UHF Logs, including satellites and radiosondes => Topic started by: R4002 on July 17, 2019, 1301 UTC
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**EDIT** I modified the title to show just July 2019 VHF / NOAA Weather Radio ducting discussion
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmXVWFQCMAk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmXVWFQCMAk)
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExXEhgXHYSc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExXEhgXHYSc)
From this morning, roughly 0645 to 0655 local time (US east coast), I was able to hear activity on all 7 NOAA Weather Radio NOAA WX frequencies, with all except the local station having multiple signals at once. 162.400 and 162.550 seemed to have three stations going at various points. The band does appear to be open to one degree or another every morning, but this morning was an extreme example.
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I just (1446x) checked and have stations on all 7 channels here as well. Some channels have what sounds like possibly non local stations (but not super DX), fading in and out.
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I havent really kept track on stations,dates or times this year but noticed things had really picked up early this week as well.
Very nice catches in the video New Bern and KJY86 i think i heard . Did you identify 162.425? Thanks for sharing.
Just about everything is north this am . Ill try to catch something more interesting.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=34-UDA1QB3Q
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https://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/coverage/station_listing.html
7/22/19 around 4z conditions were great like R4002 showed. No real dx but Salisbury and others in the region were armchair and another competing with our local KHB37 but never quite made it. All were North of my qth with exceptional signal strength .
Noted the same warble tones as in R's video
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Not sure what I was hearing on 162.425 MHz as far as the station's ID goes. Odd conditions today (23 July) too. Well, this morning anyway.
Noted activity on 162.400 but lots of fading - likely either WXM57 or WXL42, considering the marine forecasts heard, I'm leaning more towards WXM57. 162.450 was coming in very strong at points, but didn't seem to have anything underneath it (compare to the July 17th records, where there certainly was another station underneath the usual KZZ28 station on 162.45 MHz). Propagation today was decidedly worse than the previous days.
My best bets for the UNID station underneath, and at points, mixing with KZZ28 are WWG33 or WNG736. Unfortunately, when the conditions are good, KZZ28's mountaintop transmitter location means it is booming into Richmond, and at points sounding like the local WX station for Richmond (WXK65 on 162.475 MHz, which is transmitted from a tower about 5 miles ESE of downtown Richmond proper). KZZ28's transmitter location on Mount Oliver really helps.
I have a feeling its WWG33 fighting with KZZ28 on 162.450. WWG33 is roughly 65-70 miles (almost due south) from my receiver, and KZZ28's transmitter is about 73 miles west-north-west from my receiver. Looking at the KZZ28 coverage map, it would seem that the transmitter is on the eastern side of the mountain, favoring transmission towards the eastern half of Virginia.
Then there's WZ2500 on Sand Mountain, 205 miles from my receiver (doing only 300 watts, but has elevation on their side, if tropo ducting is present) That's a longshot but I believe I've heard it before (underneath KZZ28 yet again) when propagation to the west of my location was favorable. 162.525 MHz is likely KJY99 on Virginia's Eastern Shore, or KJY86 out of Halifax, VA (97 miles from RX site, compare that to KJY99 which is...97 miles from the RX site!). I'm leaning towards KJY99 over KJY86 based on what was heard on 162.525. Considering I'm equal distance from the two closest transmitters on 162.525 MHz, that makes 162.525 an interesting frequency to listen to during these early morning openings.
162.425 MHz is another wildcard. 162.425 MHz could be WZ2527 out of Fredericksburg, VA. Like WZ2500, WZ2527 is another 300 watt "filler" transmitter. Then there's WXM72 on 162.425 (doing 1000 watts from the top of a mountain.....clocking in at just under 190 miles from receiver site). Considering the Washington, D.C. area and Chesapeake Bay-related forecasts on 162.425, I believe its WZ2527.
Captured two more videos - both have been uploaded to the same YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/user/R4002/videos).
Propagation was doing something this morning, even though it wasn't as good as it has been in days past, as I could hear the mystery pager on 152.120 MHz (while in the parking deck!!!) - 152.12 MHz appears to be another local (or local-ish) pager. All three of those, 152.12, 152.63 and 152.69 are so strong in the downtown Richmond area that they de-sense some VHF gear, including scanners, when they're transmitting. I have the same issues on the UHF band due to the extremely dense concentration of high powered UHF systems operating in the downtown area. The local bus/transit system (Greater Richmond Transit Company aka GRTC) operates an extremely powerful DMR trunking system on 452.825 MHz, 452.850 MHz, 453.375 MHz and 461.025 MHz. The 452.825 MHz frequency transmits 24/7 (it's used for GPS data location tracking on the buses, in conjunction with a 4.9 GHz system).
The 452.850/453.375/461.025 frequencies are used for digital voice and all four frequencies are transmitted from a tower on top of City Hall, 453.375 MHz is licensed for 237 watts ERP and the 452/461 MHz frequencies are licensed for 75 watts ERP. Considering how the 452.825 MHz GRTC data signal gets into everything on UHF, I have a feeling its doing more than 75w ERP. When I'm trying to scan the UHF business frequencies and FRS/GMRS, the DMR signal on 452.825 causes a major headache, just like the powerhouse 152 MHz pager signals on VHF.
There are several other powerful UHF systems in the area that desense the hell out of my scanner in the downtown area (the Greater Richmond Convention Center has its own DMR trunking system, and of course Philip Morris has literally hundreds of frequencies, most of them high power repeaters on UHF, licensed to them - a mixture of digital voice with some analog stuff).
The 452.8250 MHz DMR data signal mixes with other signals (likely when the other UHF repeaters located at the same site transmit, as anyone who has monitored a bus/transit radio system knows, there's a lot of chatter), I get intermod on the frequencies I'm trying to monitor, specifically several of the FRS frequencies (462.6250, 462.6375, 462.6500, 462.700,0 462.7125 and 462.7250 MHz are the worst hit) and several of the UHF business band/itinerant frequencies (namely 466.0375, 469.5000, 469.5500, 451.8125, 456.8125 and several other itinerants are also obliterated when 452.825's signal mixes with another UHF signal at or nearby. It doesn't help that the local power company operates a very powerful UHF repeater network (mostly analog FM, with some isolated digital/DMR voice usage) on 451 MHz and 452 MHz. The mixing products of these high power signals make my Pro-96 scanner very unhappy. The attenuator does nothing. The best spot I have for scanning the lower power FRS/GMRS/simplex business band chatter I'm trying to hear is also about 1200 feet from the City Hall roof transmission site.
In addition to the local pagers on 152.630 MHz and 162.690 MHz, I could hear the Fork Mountain STARS Project 25 control channel on 152.7125 MHz (with the squelch open anyway). The 152.0375 MHz signal is the local (Richmond) STARS control channel and the 152.7575 MHz signal is another local-ish STARS frequency.
The STARS system makes extensive use of the old Part 22 paging frequencies for both P25 voice and data, but usually the control channel (152.03 MHz - 152.24 MHz and 152.51 MHz - 152.81 MHz), often with 7.5 kHz offsets (152.0375 MHz instead of 152.030 MHz, 152.7575 MHz instead of 152.750 MHz, etc) and, in the western portion of Virginia, the 161 MHz "B" (shore) marine channels 161.8000 MHz to 161.9500 MHz in 12.5 kHz steps, I believe they had to get a special authorization from the FCC to use those frequencies, and only in certain areas. So, if you hear digital signals between 161.8 and 162 MHz, chances are you're hearing one of the western Virginia STARS sites:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3783 (https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3783)
Unfortunately they do re-use frequencies to a certain extent, so a Project 25 trunking scanner is needed to further narrow down which site you're hearing for sure. The control channels are on 24/7 and make great propagation indicators.
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Some more VHF DX (NOAA Weather Radio) propagation this morning. Received while mobile at street level in downtown Richmond, VA (with all the obstructions and multipath propagation issues found in a built-up urban area)
162.550 MHz KHB36 - Manassas, VA NOAA Weather Radio powerhouse transmitter mixing in with KHB37 Norfolk, VA - heard KHB36 ID clearly twice. For most of the time, KHB36 was clearly the winner. Independent Hill, VA transmitter location coming in nicely
162.525 MHz KJY86 - Halifax, VA mixing in with KJY99 Accomack, VA (Eastern Shore) - heard marine forecasts (indicating KJY99's service area, also heard mention of southside Virginia and northern North Carolina locations similar to the WNG586 audio loop, strongly indicating KJY86
162.500 MHz - WNG586 - Henderson, NC - good signal, heard forecast for locations in Virginia and North Carolina, all within WNG586's service area...possibly a second station's signal down underneath
162.475 MHz - WXK65 - Richmond, VA - local NOAA Weather Radio transmitter
162.450 MHz - KZZ28 - Covesville, VA (Charlottesville, VA) with another, unidentified station underneath it. Similar to the station-vs-station signals heard yesterday morning on 162.45 MHz
162.425 MHz - no identifiable signals heard this morning
162.400 MHz - possibly WXM57 Heathsville, VA, although there was another station mixing in at points, heard mention of Baltimore Inner Harbor and other marine weather, I might have been heard KEC83 Baltimore, MD 162.4 MHz mixing in with WXM57.
Two more videos uploaded this morning, showing parts of this morning's NOAA Weather Radio activity (see: https://www.youtube.com/user/R4002/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/R4002/videos))
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Quote: Not sure what I was hearing on 162.425 MHz as far as the station's ID goes.
With the southern Carolina coastal city reports would be either Warsaw or Mamie , both 300 watts . That would be a notable catch from your qth
Edit, i looked at it again. At the end you flipped between New Bern and Warsaw both running the Newport loop,
Fantastic catch if it is Warsaw - thanks for posting
https://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/coverage/site2.php?State=NC&Site=KXI95
Nothing at all last 2_3 days either before or after the cool front. I'm at + 12 feet sea level .
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The 162.425 MHz frequency is interesting because it seems to mostly be used by the lower-power (300 watt) fill-in transmitters.
I was able to catch "the usual suspects" this morning, including KHB36 on 162.550 (lots of fading up and down on that frequency, probably due to multipath, I was driving through downtown while listening). 162.400 was also up and down, but at points was full-scale and SIO 555. 162.450 MHz had two stations almost equisignal to each other, with KZZ28 still "winning" but just barely this time, the other station might have been Margaretsville WWG33. I believe I heard WNG586 out of Henderson, NC yet again this morning on 162.500 MHz. 162.525 MHz also came in nicely, likely KJY99 again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXeB2UBO8OI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXeB2UBO8OI)
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WXM80 162.475 received 2215- 2230 UTC 7/25 in Virginia Beach Va.
Riverhead New York 332 air miles. Signal entirely over water
No other stations!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4a8AECImzN0
At 0310z same evening 162.475 has returned to fair/ weak Salisbury in Delaware. I started wondering how wide or the confines of these conditions .
This dx calculator/ map draws a nice red line . https://www.freemaptools.com/how-far-is-it-between.htm
They certainly seem to very or relativity narrow going by exclusion
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Nice catch on the late night tropo with WXM80 on 162.475 MHz. Hopefully this morning’s commute will yield some
more logs, if the propagation is good I’ll post another video.
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There is/was an "overwater" 2m route between Omaha and Sewer City Ia via the Missouri river every morning more or less, I presume this overwater enhancement/inversion layer happens much more often than not.
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Here is a VHF SDR in the DC area that will receive WX broadcasts. Might be interesting during openings or to help ID stations.
http://na5b.com:8902/
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7/28 at 0500z ,
162.475 KIG77 Buxton NC
162.450 WWG33 Margarettsville NC 300 watter
162.400 KHB38 Atlantic City Nj https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq4FQAKmF2Q
and KJY99
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No sign of WXK65 (1000w out of Richmond City) on 162.475 MHz in Virginia Beach? Just KIG77.
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During the 3-4 years I've been paying attention to this, I've never heard WXK65 here.
With the rare exceptions, west of here just doesn't happen
Ok forget that! I started not to post this or remove it, never say never. Weird, very weird indeed!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pHkJrfMnH2M
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During the 3-4 years I've been paying attention to this, I've never heard WXK65 here.
With the rare exceptions, west of here just doesn't happen
Ok forget that! I started not to post this or remove it, never say never. Weird, very weird indeed!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pHkJrfMnH2M
Very nice. I think you're in a better location for ducting than I am, since you have more over-water propagation paths near you. Here's today's catch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3vvuviiEOc
WNG586 on 162.500 MHz with loud and clear ID...162.450 was very messy, at points it almost sounded like three different stations were on the frequency at the same time. Given the FM capture effect, this would indicate that the signal strengths were very close to identical. 162.550 was even worse, at least two stations QRMing each other to the point that very little could be made out as far as trying to ID them...my presumption is that it's the usual suspects - KHB36 and KHB37 fighting it out.
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Here's a Va Pilot comm 156.700 , I didn't catch the vessel name . Also I had on the squelch half the video . I don't have the antenna hooked up . If he said " call when 1 hr out" the vessel was offshore much more than 15 miles. Probably Greek, or the captains Greek
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p7i5730NgaY
Also heard WXM80 armchair this evening ! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7OEIQMXrvwY
Also Atlantic City
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More nice catches, especially the VHF marine channel 14 traffic on 156.700 MHz. I imagine there is some serious marine coast VHF (and MF/HF!) stations in your area. There are plenty of licensed MC stations on the 156.050 MHz - 157.425 MHz band, but I'm sure there are also plenty of folks with VHF marine radios installed in their homes/businesses/marinas as base stations with high gain antennas.
Here are the videos for this morning's commute:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9oFIOHQU1I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9oFIOHQU1I)
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ciy07PSeCGk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ciy07PSeCGk)
This morning yielded the usual mess on 162.450 MHz and 162.550 MHz, but I did get positive IDs for WNG586 out of Henderson, NC on 162.500 MHz and KJY86 on 162.525 MHz out of Halifax, VA as well. 162.450 was really messy, usually KZZ28 wins. Yesterday evening KZZ28 was having technical difficulties [see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wpea6S3t8M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wpea6S3t8M)] but this morning they appeared to be back in service.
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More of the same this morning, August 1st, 2019 08/01/2019 -
https://youtu.be/1ks55zS_BLE
VHF DX NOAA Weather Radio 1 August 2019 Part 1 of 2
and
https://youtu.be/PRjN01AoM5s
VHF DX NOAA Weather Radio 1 August 2019 Part 2 of 2
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Maryland Pilot comm 156.700
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4qvOJ5xR8so
No copy on the Dublin Express
Interesting last night around 0000z started out KIG77 Buxton NC, in the space of about 2 mins went from armchair to white noise, then to Salisbury in Delaware for awhile, that collapsed and went to WXK65 Richmond . Never moved off 162.475 Wish I would have recorded but of course didn't know it was going to happen
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Signals have been scarce to non existent first week of August. There was a shift in the weather but has returned to normal , hot and muggy. Ive checked a few times a day and at night and its just been a bunch of white noise
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Only Salisbury this am , nothing on any other freq besides our local 162.550 for the last 8 days or so
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Try DX'ing WX stations around 5, or 6, AM.
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Indeed. That seems to be the best time. Most of the short video clips I’ve uploaded to the official R4002 YouTube channel involving NOAA WX VHF DX were recorded between 6:40am and 7:00am local time (while I’m driving to work).
https://m.youtube.com/user/R4002/videos
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I kept a good watch over the last 10 days or so. Very dead , the usual suspects were weak if even tbere at all.
It starts up again in the fall and winter, at least here.
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Yesterday morning there were some hints of activity from the usual suspects. I noticed WNG586 out of Henderson, NC 162.500 MHz coming in very nicely at points yesterday morning around 0650 local time, WNG686 was SIO 444 - SIO 555 at best points. New Bern, NC also came in perfectly at the beginning of the listening sessions - KEC84 on 162.400 MHz
Logs:
162.400 MHz - New Bern, NC - KEC84 1000w TX power
162.425 MHz - UNID, possibly WZ2527 or WZ2543 (both 300w low power fill-in coverage transmitters)
162.450 MHz - Covesville, VA (Charlottesville, VA) - KZZ28 1000w TX power, mixing with WWG33
162.475 MHz - Richmond, VA WXK65 1000w TX power (local station can be heard with antenna disconnected)
162.500 MHz - Henderson, NC WNG586 300w TX power
162.525 MHz - possibly KJY99 [Accomack, VA 1000w TX power] or another station - possibly KJY86 South Boston, VA [1000w]
162.550 MHz - KHB36 and KHB37 fighting it out (as usual)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcRoGWo5Udc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcRoGWo5Udc)
At one point 162.400 got completely obliterated by local pager intermod. There are three high power pager transmitters in the downtown Richmond area, on 152.120 MHz, 152.630 MHz and 152.690 MHz - the 152.63 and 152.69 frequencies are very active and are located on top of high-rises with extremely high TX power/ERP - those two signals register as S9+60db on a base station receiver with a simple antenna. When they transmit, the entire VHF band knows it.
The NOAA Weather Radio website indicates that KZZ28 (162.450 MHz) is currently out of service. It's certainly in service, they haven't updated their site.
KZZ28 must be located on top of a mountain - I can hear it consistently regardless of conditions on my VHF mobile radio. I've used its signal to test antenna and receiver/transceiver combinations. My handheld radios hear it just fine too, from my Motorola MTS2000 to my Baofeng UV-5Rs (with various antennas, including the stock antenna) to my Puxing PX-973UV and Quansheng TG-2UV dualbanders.
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Very nice on New Bern .
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I heard a few bits and pieces of the Baltimore, MD station KEC83 on 162.400 MHz this morning about 0650 local time (otherwise, the band was meh, especially compared to the catches of the other day). Of course, I didn't have the camera going this time because the conditions were nothing special...well, until KEC83 came in out of the blue.
162.550 was the usual fight between KHB36 and KHB37, but neither of them were as strong as they have been in days/weeks past. 162.450 was the usual story as well, with KZZ28 coming in nicely and another station noticeable underneath it.
On an offhand note, I have my Motorola MTS2000 VHF handheld with me today and put it on 162.450 while sitting at a red light and could copy KZZ28 just fine with the factory Motorola VHF rubber duck inside my car.
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At 1257 ut aug31 - strong regional tropo this morning , all 7 freq are armchair.
Margaretsville 162.450 the 300 watter is clean.
KHB37 162.550 our local is being seriously attenuated by another station , but its garbled. I did hear " beach report" under KHB37
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WXL59 162.475 Rocky Mount / Tarboro NC on Sept 1 0300 UT Southwest. All frequencies active all day 31 aug some with others underneath but nothing unusual except Rocky Mount
Edit : around 0325z KIG77 Buxton NC dominated 162.475 with Rocky Mount under fading away by 0330z
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Here we go :-\.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f4lZ6vBdwME
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Heard stations on all 7 WX frequencies yesterday morning and this morning, lots of mentions of Hurricane and Tropical Storm conditions, especially when listening to the stations covering coastal Virginia and North Carolina. Noticed that 162.450 MHz was really messy at one point, generally KZZ28 is the clear winner but at points it was almost a pure hetrodyne. WNG586 on 162.500 MHz out of Henderson, NC was nearly full quieting in my receive as well.
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I sandbagged the back door
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QnkvQ9Vb5nI
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Is the flooding/storm surge from Dorian bad down there?
The band was dead this morning. Nothing on 162.400 or 162.550 even.
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No flooding yet 1200 ut.
We are behind dunes , never have seen them breached. There are 60 year old trees in the neighborhood, so no saltwater has been over them in awhile.
The big worry is rain. It's flat and water doesn't run out past a certain rate. Right much wind now but no issues so far
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Hope you weren’t too badly hit after all is said and done (with that storm anyway).
The band has been kind of meh lately, although I did catch KHB36 and KHB37 mixing together almost perfectly yesterday morning on 162.550 MHz.