HFU HF Underground
General Category => Amateur Radio => Topic started by: ko4fki on December 31, 2021, 0154 UTC
-
Hey, I'm new here and I wanted to know if anybody had some recommendations for a HF base station rig? Preferably something older to reduce the price. Another detail that should be noted is that I am not Extra Class yet, but I would like to have something that would last a while and that would still work well through different classes.
-
Hmmmmmmmmmmm... My 1st HF rig was, (And I still have.), an Icom IC-745. Great receive on that rig, but very much just communication grade audio. I bought it from a friend in 1993 for $650.00 and later upgraded the VRAM board to the PIEXX battery-less VRAM re[placement. It has the same receive capabilities as the famed IC-R71A receiver, which is a big reason that I chose that. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=508 A somewhat newer rig is the Icom IC-735. Better audio here, especially in AM RX / TX. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=381 Going Kenwood, I still like my TS-50S, and that even has the CTCSS PL tones for 10M repeater work, when you get to that with Generals and Extra upgrade, but a very good 10M SSB rig for Tech Class. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=411 (I have the 6M TS-60S version of this rig as well.) If you want a Swiss Army Knife-type rig, there are a lot of Kenwood TS-2000's out there second and even third-hand. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=1249 BTW, try to find ones that are 2007, or newer, so that they have the updated softwares and not the DC voltage to TOKO IF filter problems. (Yaesus have been known to have that problem as well.) Mine serves me well on All-Modes. Another Kenwood considering is a decent TS-440. A good all-around older performer that I'd still take, today. They sound great. Yet another Kenwood rig that I've worked many stations that were mobile is the TS-480S, and the later flavors. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=8695 Every TS-480 that I've heard, and worked, sounded excellent just from their stock mics. Another Swiss Army Knife rig, that I use to have, was the Yaesu FT-857D. Very compact, punchy SSB. FM was OK, but AM just sucked. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=3046 All these rigs are the 100W variety, but if you don't mind stepping down to 20W, I'm diggin' the new Xiegu G90. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=14255 I have yet to write my Perks & Jerks review on this there on eham. If tubes don't scare ya, a Yaesu FT-101, (The 1970's version, not the FTDX-101 out now.), is a excellent all-around performer. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=4539 And, even the Tempo One. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=1239 Certainly, research these eham reviews and links. https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-category?id=14 BTW, I have used both those preceding tube rigs at friends' QTH's, and would take either one, today. Hopefully, this will help ya start-out. Good luck!!!!!!
-
Be careful with older rigs. They have a lot of miles on them and will likely need to be re-capped. IMO I'd advise an Icom IC-718. You could probably find one used for 400.00/425.00. You would have a much newer rig and DSP. I've owned one and liked it very well. Good solid rig and easy to use. If you decide later that you want to upgrade, you won't lose too much money. You will see a lot of older rigs on Ebay for sale. I tend to see a lot of Kenwood rigs, most of these are much older and will have lots of knobs and features that do things you wouldn't know how to set, being new to the hobby. I was QRP for many years, but I would never advise anyone to start this way. I currently run 50/100 watts into a low dipole and am able to work Europe/UK and SA most days. There is also the Xiegu option, but you would be in the 5 - 20 watt range. This could be aggravating and frustrating to a new person (To anyone really) In conclusion, buy the newest rig you can within your budget.
-
The IC-718 suffers from one problem - horrible fast AGC time constants on SSB. The audio “pumps” (especially on medium to strong signals) and is tiring to listen to for any length of time. You can make the radio tolerable by using the RF gain control to reduce the received signal strength so that the AVC isn’t so active.
I have never seen a mod to fix this. The only mod for the AGC I found was one that forced the radio to use the AGC settings for one of the other modes. It’s too bad as the radio is otherwise OK. I used one for MARS operation for a few years.
Despite the physical resemblance to the Icom R-75 receiver, the IC-718 receiver section is not the same. The R-75 is better.
-
I think that fault could be found in almost any transceiver. I worked plenty of DX with the 718 on CW, SSB, and PSK31 as well as using it as my shortwave receiver. I don't think a newer ham would notice. It's a perfectly capable rig. I can't think of a newer rig with a better price. I'd rather have a 2015 Honda civic than a 1983 Jaguar.
-
Any hamradio will suit your needs and there's a lot out there second hand. It's down to personal preference so best to see if you can visit somewhere that sells older radios and try one for size. Older radios (valve hybrids) like the FT101ZD can be had quite cheaply now but recommended something less than 20 years old with a built in antenna tuner.
Good luck on your quest!
Str.
-
Yes, built-in tuners are great. I have one in my HF rig and also have an LDG auto-tuner if needed. At this point, I'm pretty spoiled. However, If you don't find a radio with a built-in tuner, you always have options of external ones. I'm not a huge fan of MFJ, but I must admit I've owned a few of their manual tuners and had no issues. Once you learn how to adjust the knobs, you can dial them in pretty quickly. Another great feature of these types of tuners is having a built-in antenna switch, with the option of 2 outgoing SO239's and another for ladder line or random wire.
-
Expect to spend like $300 to $500 for a basic used HF rig, but also be prepared to spend on maintenance and repairs. Replacing older caps has been mentioned. Other common fail parts in even popular HF rig models often include cooling fans, VFO encoders, and output transistors. Repairs can add up fast if not doing them yourself, and more so if you run into "nearly unobtanium" parts.
The Icom IC-718 is popular for the price, and AFAIK, its receiver side is similar to the popular R-75.
That said, consider taking a look at the Icom IC-7100. Yeah, it a shack-in-the-box rig, so often opined as being a "jack of all trades, master of none." Still it is under $1000 new for HF, 6m, 2m, and 440. It can do SSB on the VHF and UHF bands as well, assuming that is something that might interest you.
Agree with ya' Elf. LDG offers several popular external tuners, or alternatively a MFJ manual tuner if on a budget and/or needing a wide matching range.
I kind of missing Alinco in the HF desktop rig market. The Alinco DX-SR8T was another relatively decent ~$500 entry-level or backup 100w HF rig.
-
The AGC on my ICOM IC-R75 is just as brutal otherwise it is a very nice receiver. I have owned well over 100+ receivers/transceivers and each one has their unique characteristics. For example, my Collins HF-2050 has one of the best squelch circuits I have encountered, my Harris RF-590 best ergonomics and is an overall great performing receiver and my Racals, by far, have had the best ever AGC circuits. Perfect time constances and smooth recovery.
-
Any hamradio will suit your needs and there's a lot out there second hand. It's down to personal preference so best to see if you can visit somewhere that sells older radios and try one for size. Older radios (valve hybrids) like the FT101ZD can be had quite cheaply now but recommended something less than 20 years old with a built in antenna tuner.
Good luck on your quest!
Str.
Thank you (and everybody else who helped out)!
-
People (Myself included) tend to look on Ebay for radios, but don't forget QTH.com- classifieds. There are is a lot of equipment for sale on that website. It tends to be an older crowd that doesn't do Ebay. It's also great because it's all ham op's and in my opinion more trusted. Some of the equipment you see elsewhere is from estate sales etc and the sellers do not know how to test properly.
-
The Icom IC-718 is popular for the price, and AFAIK, its receiver side is similar to the popular R-75.
This topic was covered on HFU before. The R75 is a triple conversion receiver, the IC-718 is double conversion. The R75 had a little more control over AGC, but still had problems on SSB/CW. Proper use of your RF gain control helps a lot…which is why it is there <G>. Token noted on the Radioreference.com site that the circuit board layouts are quite different.
https://www.hfunderground.com/board/index.php?topic=59595.0
https://forums.radioreference.com/threads/ic-718-transceiver-ic-r75-receiver-circuitry.368407/
If I was saving up for a rig, I would wait until I had enough to buy a IC-7300. I don’t think there is another radio on the market that gives you the bang for the buck that the IC-7300 offers and in sheer numbers sold, it may well be the most popular ham rig ever. Radios like the IC-7100 or FT-991A also give you VHF/UHF which is something to consider if that is important to you, but for HF the IC-7300 is better. The IC-7300 comes with DSP filters whereas the IC-718 requires you to buy additional filters. The IC-718 is an older design than the IC-7300, which *might* mean that the IC-7300 will be supported longer, but these days who knows? A brand new IC-7300 is going to cost you around $1000 - more expensive than the IC-718, but more likely to be the radio you will still be using years in the future. You will likely outgrow the IC-718 if you stay in the hobby.
-
Yes, the 7300 is a great rig from what I've read. It is insane how many have been sold. I can't tell you how many people on HF are using them. I don't remember a transceiver being so popular. Icom is making millions of these rigs. It reminds me of when the 706 came out years ago.
-
Do not think I ever seriously looked at the circuit design if the 718, thus suspecting it would be similar to the R75. Not kicking it being a double conversion circuit, as there are decent double conversion designs, but I would have suspected and hoped for triple conversion like the R75.
While not exactly entry-level affordable, I agree the 7300 has a great price-to-features ratio, especially if on sale with rebates available.
If one does not mind lots of menus, the Yaesu FT-891 would be another great entry-level HF+6 rig to consider. Users seem to like its receiver, too. I do know it is triple conversion with a decent roofing filter and IF DSP. Even has as small bandscope, though I heard it is more of an afterthought or neat gadget than being seriously useful. Still, lots of features for a $650 rig IMO.
-
I'd head straight for a 7300, get it new on sale as the capitalists are trying to sell used ones for almost as much as new. Then all you need is a dipole, a psu, a pc, and off you go. So much capability and you miss out on the fun of bad caps, misalignment, stressed components, etc malaise of the typical used rig. I would say try a G90 but 20 watts isn't sufficient for newbs.
-
If I had a dollar for every station I've worked that was using a 7300, I could buy a 7300!
-
I'll echo the 7300 as a good option. I have one, although with all the KiwiSDRs operating here I rarely get to use it on the bands. It's a great value for the price.
-
Be careful buying any radio more than 10 or 15 years old as some manufacturers discontinue spare parts after so many years have elapsed, Yaesu for one... :(
-
Hey, I'm new here and I wanted to know if anybody had some recommendations for a HF base station rig? Preferably something older to reduce the price. Another detail that should be noted is that I am not Extra Class yet, but I would like to have something that would last a while and that would still work well through different classes.
If you can find a TS-850 or TS-940, they are both excellent rigs and aren't that expensive now. I've had a TS-850SAT for almost 30 years and it's been great and mostly trouble-free all that time. To this day it has the best audio of just about any rig.
-
Something else to consider currently on the new market is the Yaesu FTDX-10. Possible ergonomics concerns aside, it has one of the best spec'd receivers available for the price.
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html
https://www.dj0ip.de/sherwood-forest/sherwood-hf-xcvr-tests/yaesu-ftdx-10/
-
I think that the right answer would be that you don't need a radio - you first need to find yourself a real ham - to Elmer you.
Most hams thinks economy - buy junk, save a couple of dollars now, pay a couple of dollars more later when it don't work.
In the old days - you would hop in your vehicle with friends, drive to the local amateur radio store - HRO / DX Engineering etc and go there to listen to the different rigs so you could make a opinion on which one sounds the best and which one works the best and which one would most suit your needs.
When you spend more than $1500 on a brand new Kenwood or ICOM - I would hope you would find a rig that has some sort of built in DSP Filtering and an auto tuner.
Forget About buying a Jesus radio - Yaaesu or any of the Chinese crap or anything more than 1 year old or used!
What ever POS you buy, you are going to be forced to use it the rest of your life, or at least until it breaks and you will be forced to make excuses for why it is a POS and why you don't operate more - because the audio is so crappy - you don't even like turning it on and you can't stand to listen to it.
My recommendations would be A Kenwood TS 590 - there is lot's of them out there and you can buy a brand new one for a reasonable amount of money.
Then you don't need to buy all the garbage you would need to interface the cheap crappy radios most of the other people has recommended for you..
Old mobiles and crappy low power radios - are the ones you need to stay away from - there hold no value to no one except the idiot that bought it and would like to get their money back out of it - because they don't know how to operaTE qrp and they don't understand antennas.
There is what you need to concern yourself with - buying a good first antenna.
-
I'd head straight for a 7300, get it new on sale as the capitalists are trying to sell used ones for almost as much as new. Then all you need is a dipole, a psu, a pc, and off you go. So much capability and you miss out on the fun of bad caps, misalignment, stressed components, etc malaise of the typical used rig.
+1
-
The ICOM 7300 is purchased by the person that knows little about amateur radio and believes that by buying it - it will solve all of your problems.
Icom's does two things - they sound loud - which is desirable in a pile up, and they show an honest 100 watts on the meter into a resonant antenna..
That appeases the cb'r in most hams. The person that feels like they paid for 100 watts and they want to see 100 watts on the meter...
It's usually followed by the Heil Microphone people - the ones that do not have a radio voice, that thinks that they can solve all of their problems by buying a expensive microphone.
I've used the stock Kenwood hand microphone for so long that it doesn't even make sense to step on the pedal and talk on the boom mic anymore.
You can always tell who is on a ICOM radio because their audio sounds like crap! Once you learn what to listen for, you will be able to predict who is on a icom.
-
Nearly a year on....
What did you decide on I wonder?
Str.
-
Nearly a year on....
What did you decide on I wonder?
Str.
And just where have you been?
-
I could say the same to you my friend.
Good to see you back with the happy family!!
-
Are you finally going to reveal yourself as the Tudor claimant to the throne now that Elizabeth Saxe Coburg has passed on? The Saudi's gave her son Chuck a big sack of money a few weeks back, maybe they'll back your claim and buy you the BBC.
-
To the original poster, if you're going buy used, buy heavy metal and invest in the Globe King line of transmitters. You'll be loud, wide, and won't have to worry about heating your house. Isn't that what everyone really wants from a rig?
-
Yes Liz has passed and ol' Big Ears has the throne. I think he should secede and pass it on to the younger generation. Don't think he will however as he's been waiting a while...
Radio wise yes the venerable valve things are still available.
We would like to know what was chosen?
Str
Long live the King!
-
Yes Liz has passed and ol' Big Ears has the throne. I think he should secede and pass it on to the younger generation. Don't think he will however as he's been waiting a while...
Well, it is his first real job.
-
Isn't that what everyone really wants from a rig?
Swan 350, that way one can work large swaths of a band.... simultaneously. :D
-
I still see plenty of Swan's for sale on Ebay. Couple one with an amp and you'll be the most talked about guy for miles around.
-
I had a Swan 350, 20+ years ago. I still remember the creaking sounds the finals (which were TV sweep tubes) made when tuning up due to thermal expansion from them heating up.
-
My CB loving Uncle had one with tubes to spare. He'd been a TV repair man in the 50's and 60's and had all kinds of tubes. He got the Swan when his Heathkit 101 gave up the ghost. He had to have that SSB option, "It gives you a buncha extra channels!", he told me when SSB made it's appearance in the CB world in the very early 70's. Both radio's FM'ed like crazy, so he got that option w/o knowing it.
The Swan was in his bedroom when he died in 2006.
-
As a first radio I found the Icom 7100 to have been a good choice for me. Sadly their price went up a lot recent months. The ability to plug a cat cable in direct to a computer, the SWR meter, and the dual HF and VHF/UHF antenna ports make it a full featured rig. I bought mine about 5 years ago, and as my interests have grown in radio it has been fully capable of allowing me to experiment with them. WS7PB