We seek to understand and document all radio transmissions, legal and otherwise, as part of the radio listening hobby. We do not encourage any radio operations contrary to regulations. Always consult with the appropriate authorities if you have questions concerning what is permissible in your locale.

Author Topic: Solar activity has a direct impact on Earth’s cloud cover  (Read 1877 times)

Offline ka1iic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 903
  • Troy, Ohio
  • Troy, Ohio. 20m Vertical & low long wire E/W,
    • View Profile
    • Email

Cosmic radiation
Space research
Wednesday 24 Aug 16
|
by Morten Garly Andersen
Contact
Henrik Svensmark
Professor
DTU Space
+45 45 25 97 41
hsv@space.dtu.dk
Reference to the new paper

The full reference to the new paper is: J. Svensmark, M. B. Enghoff, N. J. Shaviv, and H. Svensmark, “The response of clouds and aerosols to cosmic ray decreases”, Journal of Geophysical Research – Space Physics, 2016, DOI: 10.1002/2016JA022689.

Click here or here  to access the abstract and full scientific paper.

Click here for information on terms of use of the full article accepted for publication in American Geophysical Unions 'Journal of Geophysical Research - Space Physics'.

Professor Henrik Svensmark can also be contacted direct at his mobile phone at +45 22 37 07 11.
Solar eruption increase energy on Earth

The suggested causal chain of reactions responsible for the observed correlations shown in the new study begins with a solar eruption resulting in fewer cosmic rays and therefore less atmospheric ionisation.

This results in fewer formed cloud condensation nuclei and then fewer clouds and ultimately an increase in the energy that reaches Earth’s surface.
Solar variations affect the abundance of clouds in our atmosphere, a new study lead by DTU Space suggests. Large eruptions on the surface of the Sun can temporarily shield Earth from so-called cosmic rays which now appear to affect cloud formation.

A team of scientists from the National Space Institute at the Technical University of Denmark (DTU Space) and the Racah Institute of Physics at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem has linked large solar eruptions to changes in Earth’s cloud cover in a study based on over 25 years of satellite observations.

The solar eruptions are known to shield Earth’s atmosphere from cosmic rays. However the new study, published in Journal of Geophysical Research: Space Physics, shows that the global cloud cover is simultaneously reduced, supporting the idea that cosmic rays are important for cloud formation. The eruptions cause a reduction in cloud fraction of about 2 percent corresponding to roughly a billion tonnes of liquid water disappearing from the atmosphere.

Since clouds are known to affect global temperatures on longer timescales, the present investigation represents an important step in the understanding of clouds and climate variability.

”Earth is under constant bombardment by particles from space called galactic cosmic rays. Violent eruptions at the Sun’s surface can blow these cosmic rays away from Earth for about a week. Our study has shown that when the cosmic rays are reduced in this way there is a corresponding reduction in Earth’s cloud cover. Since clouds are an important factor in controlling the temperature on Earth our results may have implications for climate change“, explains lead author on the study Jacob Svensmark of DTU.

Very energetic particles
"Since clouds are an important factor in controlling the temperature on Earth our results may have implications for climate change"
Jacob Svensmark, lead author and research assistant

Galactic cosmic rays are very energetic particles originating mainly from super novae.

These particles generate electrically charged molecules – ions – in Earth’s atmosphere. Ions have been shown in the laboratory to enhance the formation of aerosols, which can serve as seeds for the formation of the cloud drops that make up a cloud. Whether this actually happens in the atmosphere, or only in the laboratory is a topic that has been investigated and debated for years.

When the large solar eruptions blow away the galactic cosmic rays before they reach Earth they cause a reduction in atmospheric ions of up to about 20 to -30 percent over the course of a week. So if ions affect cloud formation it should be possible to observe a decrease in cloud cover during events when the Sun blows away cosmic rays, and this is precisely what is done in this study.

The so-called 'Forbush decreases' of the cosmic rays have previously been linked to week-long changes in Earth’s cloud cover but the effect has been debated at length in the scientific literature.
The new study concludes that “there is a real impact of Forbush decreases on cloud microphysics” and that the results support the suggestion that “ions play a significant role in the life-cycle of clouds”.

Arriving at that conclusion was, however, a hard endeavor; Very few strong Forbush decreases occur and their effect on cloud formation is expected to be close to the limit of detection using global atmospheric observations measured by satellites and land based stations. Therefore it was of the greatest importance to select the strongest events for study since they had to have the most easily detected effect. Determining this strength required combining data from about 130 stations in combination with atmospheric modeling.

This new method resulted in a list of 26 events in the period of 1987-2007 ranked according to ionization. This ranked list was important for the detection of a signal, and may also shed some light on why previous studies have arrived at varied conclusions, since they have relied on events that were not necessarily ranked high on the list.

Possible long term effect

The effect from Forbush decreases on clouds is too brief to have any impact on long-term temperature changes.

However since clouds are affected by short term changes in galactic cosmic radiation, they may well also be affected by the slower change in Solar activity that happens on scales from tens to hundreds of years, and thus play a role in the radiation budget that determines the global temperature.

The Suns contribution to past and future climate change may thus be larger than merely the direct changes in radiation, concludes the scientists behind the new study.

Forbush-illu-lille-Svensmark-2016

 
Related News 

02 August 2016 Winners found in European youth...

Foto Thorkild Christensen

06 July 2016 Rufus Gifford joins Juno mission...

06 July 2016 Danish expertise essential to European...

05 July 2016 The goal is a person on Mars
Show more
News and filters
Get updated on news that match your filter.
DTU
Technical University of Denmark

For almost two centuries DTU, Technical University of Denmark, has been dedicated to fulfilling the vision of H.C. Ørsted – the father of electromagnetism



http://www.dtu.dk/english/News/Nyhed?id=b759b038-66d3-4328-bbdc-0b0a82371446
73 Vince
KA1IIC

"If you can't be anything, you can at least be annoying"

Troy, Ohio. 20m Vertical & low long wire E/W, Yaesu FT-187ND, SDRplay 2, Ratt Shack 2 meter rig, and other little bits of electronics I'm not talking about, homebrewed and otherwise... so there bleech!

Offline foxd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Bloomington, IN
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Solar activity has a direct impact on Earth’s cloud cover
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2016, 0358 UTC »
I recognize the name Henrik Svensmark for several reasons.  I remember a particularly scathing review of his early work by Peter Laut.  I also remember reading an article where an entire conference got fed up and yelled at Svensmark.

http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/Laut2003.pdf

Offline ka1iic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 903
  • Troy, Ohio
  • Troy, Ohio. 20m Vertical & low long wire E/W,
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Solar activity has a direct impact on Earth’s cloud cover
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2016, 1552 UTC »
Yeah!  I luv it when a plan comes together...

The reaction is rude of course seeing where this was a public debate but me... I find all of them that work in this area 'a bunch of damed fools that ignore the facts of 'physical law and theory'... but they are what they are.

I had one fairly well known person (A PHD) tell me flat out that all Sun affects here on earth are a 'constant'...  A great group of them agreed with (a few did not) him and that is when I decided they were all full of guano. 

Have a great day and a better tomorrow!
73 Vince
KA1IIC

"If you can't be anything, you can at least be annoying"

Troy, Ohio. 20m Vertical & low long wire E/W, Yaesu FT-187ND, SDRplay 2, Ratt Shack 2 meter rig, and other little bits of electronics I'm not talking about, homebrewed and otherwise... so there bleech!

Offline foxd

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Bloomington, IN
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Solar activity has a direct impact on Earth’s cloud cover
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2016, 1521 UTC »
There are reasons the conference got up and yelled at him.

http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/Laut2003a.pdf

Some quotes:

"Henrik Svensmark’s comments demonstrate that he simply misunderstands the definition of a
physical parameter (i.e. the DSMP dataset,see Ad page 3, paragraph 6, below), that plays a decisive
role in creating the misleading message in his world-famous figure from his 1998 article in Physical
Review Letters, namely, the incorrect claim, that there should be a strong agreement between the
variation of ‘total global cloud cover’ and ‘galactic cosmic ray intensity’. This misunderstanding is,
of course, a strange and troubling fact, which is quite extraordinary in the context of serious scientific
work."

"Here HS tries to explain why his ‘mixed’ curves look like they do, and he tries to argue that the
variation of what he called ‘total cloud cover’ in 1998 actually - in some way- reflects ‘low cloud
cover’. He apparently assumes that this interpretation- by some strange reason- is valid both for
the Nimbus 7 and for the ISCCP datasets.
That may be true and may not be true. To me it is- for the time being and until some solid scientific
evidence emerges - a pure personal guess by HS. And there are many climatological arguments
that go against this guess (I do not find that this is the place to discuss these in detail). Therefore,
HS should tell the Public, that he now has changed his mind, and that he now believes that ‘low
cloud cover’ and not ‘total cloud cover’ is the essential physical parameter.
And he should tell the Public that his old 1998-figure is not supported by scientific
evidence - and has never been."

Offline ka1iic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 903
  • Troy, Ohio
  • Troy, Ohio. 20m Vertical & low long wire E/W,
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Solar activity has a direct impact on Earth’s cloud cover
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2016, 1845 UTC »
Like I said, pro or con, this Climate Science 'science' thing is a nut cake pudding thing to me.

Don't misunderstand, I do firmly believe in 'Climate Change' but not this crazy mess that is being pounded down our throats. Climate Change is real, if it was not we  humans would not be here today, the earth has had many changes in climate from the beginning, from totally hot to super cold, back and forth and around here and there...  it's call a cycle.

Doctor Edward Lorenz (He was a Professor Emeritus at MIT from 1987 until his death) got it right and it stands as a theory (not a hypothesis like the current climate change foolishness).

It's called "Chaos Theory". 

Def: "Chaos theory is the field of study in mathematics that studies the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions—a response popularly referred to as the butterfly effect. Small differences in initial conditions (such as those due to rounding errors in numerical computation) yield widely diverging outcomes for such dynamical systems, rendering long-term prediction impossible in general. This happens even though these systems are deterministic, meaning that their future behavior is fully determined by their initial conditions, with no random elements involved. In other words, the deterministic nature of these systems does not make them predictable. This behavior is known as deterministic chaos, or simply chaos. The theory was summarized by Edward Lorenz."

With Chaos theory things happen... and often do... and there isn't a damned thing we humans can do about it.  A complex system like weather or climate can change for no known reason and we simply do not have the math or knowledge to predict it or stop it.  The Earth could split in 2 pieces and fall into the Sun tomorrow, statistics says it is unlikely but Chaos Theory says it can and at any time. 

This is one of the reasons that real Physicists will not venture into to swamp of this political debate.  They know it is wrong.  Even the Climate 'Scientists' know that they are wrong. If they weren't then why do they need to silence all debate against to get it passed?  They have to use the methods of Hitler and Stalin to get it passed?  That proves they have no case.  To use State Attorneys to make their 'consensus' ?  Let's get real, this is nothing more than political Bull Scat.


cite:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Norton_Lorenz

and many more.  Please look for some 'real' books on the above as I have.

BTW  I will not comment on this issue anymore as this is a radio blog and I apologize to the group for bring up this BS. 



 

73 Vince
KA1IIC

"If you can't be anything, you can at least be annoying"

Troy, Ohio. 20m Vertical & low long wire E/W, Yaesu FT-187ND, SDRplay 2, Ratt Shack 2 meter rig, and other little bits of electronics I'm not talking about, homebrewed and otherwise... so there bleech!

Offline BoomboxDX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 804
    • View Profile
Re: Solar activity has a direct impact on Earth’s cloud cover
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2016, 1528 UTC »
Well, the sun also affects radio reception. It's all interrelated somewhere.
An AM radio Boombox DXer.
+ GE SRIII, PR-D5 & TRF on MW.
The usual Realistic culprits on SW (and a Panasonic).

 

HFUnderground T-Shirt
HFUnderground House Flag
by MitchellTimeDesigns