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Author Topic: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please  (Read 8058 times)

Offline Josh

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #105 on: July 19, 2018, 1853 UTC »
Strong here in NC using a Sony ICF-SW11 with whip antenna.
I'll add my 2c to the conspiracy theories...
1) DoD experimental signal (maybe NPT) from Crane Naval Facility in Indiana
2) Really slow data where frequency/pips equals bits
3) Some guy ROFL at the rest of us playing whack-a-mole

Scott

Hey Scott, do you have any examples of hf traffic from Crane?
Conveniently located near Vincennes Indiana.

Offline Traveling Wave

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #106 on: July 20, 2018, 0036 UTC »
20 July 2018

0036 UTC - PIP is pulsing steady on 7180 kHz, signal S9 + 20/40 dB. in WNY.
0040 UTC - Now seeing PIPs on 7170, 7175. but still steady on 7180.
0044 UTC - PIP steady on 7140 kHz.
0053 UTC - PIP hopping frequencies 7170, 7145, 7185, 7175, 7180, 7125, 7140, 7135, 7130.7195 kHz.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 0058 UTC by Traveling Wave »
Location: Western New York ( Niagara Frontier)
Radio :TS480 with RTL-SDR pan-adapter, HDSDR, Omni-Rig Control,Zenith T/O R600
Antenna: 40m dipole, 20-17-15 meter fan dipole

Offline MegatonRange

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #107 on: July 20, 2018, 0306 UTC »
It's been on 8 MHz tonight (0250-0300 UTC) July 20, 2018. Frequencies were 8164.0, 8154.0, 8189.0, 8224.0, 8194.0, 8184.0, 8144.0, 8164.0, 8159.0, 8229.0, 8174.0, 8164.0 & on & on, jumping around every few seconds, but staying longer on some frequencies.

Offline Boriken

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2018, 0120 UTC »
Josh,

Sorry, no samples from Crane. Interviewed with them many years ago as an RF Engineer. Wide variety of electronic countermeasure experiments. Went to NTTR in Tonopah NV instead. Fascinating place, amazing what the military can get away with.

Scott
Scott / WB4YZA
Western North Carolina
Mosty homebrew, 100% analog

Offline Traveling Wave

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #109 on: July 23, 2018, 0143 UTC »
23 July 2018

0142 UTC - PIP hopping frequencies on 12320, 12310, 12315, 12260 kHz. Signal S9 +20;40dB in WNY.
0145 UTC - PIP holding steady on 12320 kHz.
0155 UTC - PIP is gone.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 0157 UTC by Traveling Wave »
Location: Western New York ( Niagara Frontier)
Radio :TS480 with RTL-SDR pan-adapter, HDSDR, Omni-Rig Control,Zenith T/O R600
Antenna: 40m dipole, 20-17-15 meter fan dipole

Offline Traveling Wave

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #110 on: July 31, 2018, 0038 UTC »
31 July 2018

0037 UTC - PIP is hopping frequencies on 17 meters: 18088, 18093, 18098, 18103, 18123, 18128, 18133 kHz,  Signal is  S7 to S9 in WNY, not the usual strength.
0047 UTC - PIP signal now S9 +20/40 dB.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 0048 UTC by Traveling Wave »
Location: Western New York ( Niagara Frontier)
Radio :TS480 with RTL-SDR pan-adapter, HDSDR, Omni-Rig Control,Zenith T/O R600
Antenna: 40m dipole, 20-17-15 meter fan dipole

Offline Josh

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #111 on: July 31, 2018, 1713 UTC »
Josh,

Sorry, no samples from Crane. Interviewed with them many years ago as an RF Engineer. Wide variety of electronic countermeasure experiments. Went to NTTR in Tonopah NV instead. Fascinating place, amazing what the military can get away with.

Scott

Thanks. A friend just moved to Nellis to take your place in the electronics dept of area 51. He was going to do fed law countermeasures but the aliens were more interesting.
Conveniently located near Vincennes Indiana.

Offline Token

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #112 on: November 12, 2018, 2318 UTC »
The 1 PPS oddity, a quandary

Since at least as far back as January of 2018 a 1 pulse per second odd signal has periodically been seen up and down the HF bands.  This is a signal that sounds very much like a time station, ticking one time per second, changing frequency sometimes swiftly, sometimes slowly.  Naturally, it has been reported on several forums.  Some of the places it has been discussed:

https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/time-signal-intruder.614510/
https://www.hfunderground.com/board/index.php/topic,41025.0.html
https://forums.radioreference.com/utility-listening/363866-unknown-pips-pulses-ham-40-meter-band-01-jan-2018-2238-utc.html

Various plotting methods have been applied to the signals, most results seem to point to the area around Chicago, Illinois.

Most of the reports seem to be in the ham bands, however that might just be a factor of how many people watch the ham bands at any given moment.  To the best of my knowledge, the frequency ranges that have been observed and reported have been:

6320 to 6510 kHz
7095 to 7300 kHz
8100 to 8400 kHz
10100 to 10150 kHz
12200 to 12450 kHz
14060 to 14350 kHz
18065 to 18160 kHz
21200 to 21300 kHz

You can see it has at least 3 full bands that are well outside the ham bands, and a few frequencies just outside ham bands.  There absolutely may be more ranges outside ham bands that are simply not being reported because no one has noticed.  The reports of operation inside ham bands vastly outnumber the reports of operations outside ham bands, however I am not sure if this is an actual trend, or if it is just a result of the source of data (mostly hams).  I know watching the signal today it seemed to spend as much time outside the ham bands as inside.

Various sources have tried, or tentatively, connected these transmissions with High Frequency Trading (HFT) experiments.  Some specific HFT experimental licenses have been suggested as related to these transmissions, the following license are sometimes quoted:
WI2XNX
WJ2XGD
WH2XWU
WH2XVO

However, none of these license cover all of the frequencies observed.  In fact, all of the authorized frequencies for all of those licenses combined still do not cover all of the frequencies observed.

Further, the HFT application of radio links is in a quest to gain advantages of milliseconds, if not microseconds, on trading transactions.  So even if the pulses observed did contain data (and they don't appear to) they would update that data only once per second.  It seems, to me, an unlikely fit.

It has been suggested that these pulses have nothing to do with the data of HFT itself, but are just tools to measure or model propagation delays for future HFT ventures.  While certainly possible (the signal does look like a propagation / scatter experiment to me) the frequency ranges observed are pretty narrow, and such measurements generally do not require stepping across such narrow frequency ranges.  Is moving 10 kHz every 2 or 3 minutes really going to tell you much about the real time propagation variations between the frequencies?

So, what is this 1 PPS oddity?  I really don't know.  But the more I look at it the less convinced I am that it has anything to do with HFT experiments, or any of the license so far identified.  Can anyone convince me differently?

T!
T!
Mojave Desert, California USA

Offline GrahamC

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2018, 0220 UTC »
token,
Well reasoned and I doubt that I could convince you otherwise.
I think you are correct, there have been more observations in the amateur radio bands simply due to their being more listeners.
 
There is a what I believe to be a part to this mystery which has not been reported very often. There have been reports of and I have logged on numerous occasions a very wide band signal noted just below the amateur 40m band, on 8MHz and 12MHz; some reports from Europe as well.
I have not done much of any real analysis on this signal other than to note that it appears to be something like PSK/QAM and looks a lot like the Pluto II OTHR on a SDR waterfall but is 25kHz wide whereas I think the Pluto II signal is note quite as wide. Signal strength has been the same as the 1 PPS signal and also seems to be located somewhere near Chicago when I have used the KiwiSDR SDR's to get a TDoA fix. I did not check this evening but a couple of evenings ago I noted this signal around 6800kHz (just a vague recollection as a I don' t have my log handy).
It always pays to be somewhat skeptical even when you have a growing list of evidence that points to one thing. In other words, it is too easy to jump to conclusions when what you think you know is conveniently leading you along.
these are the links to some of the interesting postings on high frequency trading, chicago, and HF antennas (they are also embedded in the links Token provided);
https://sniperinmahwah.wordpress.com/2018/05/07/shortwave-trading-part-i-the-west-chicago-tower-mystery/
https://sniperinmahwah.wordpress.com/2018/06/07/shortwave-trading-part-ii-faq-and-other-chicago-area-sites/
https://sniperinmahwah.wordpress.com/2018/07/13/shortwave-trading-part-iii-fourth-chicago-site-east-coast-patent-regulation-and-farmer-kevin-mystery/
https://sniperinmahwah.wordpress.com/2018/07/16/shortwave-trading-part-iv-sleuthing-examples-research-tools-techniques-deputies-wanted/
I am sure that this mystery has been discussed on other english and non-english web sites; the challenge in searching for them is to search for the right terms and human nature being what it is, everyone and every group will post using somewhat different language making it difficult to find said discussions.
My suspicion is that the 1 PPS signal and the 25kHz wideband signal are related and most likely related to this HFT stuff.  The PPS signal itself likely little more than a measurement tool rather than a conveyor of much data itself but I leave some room for doubt - too few real hard facts and what we have is mostly circumstantial.
cheers, Graham near Ottawa Canada

Offline Token

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2018, 0233 UTC »
I agree the wideband data is very possibly, probably even, HFT related.  The wideband data fits the authorized freqs for several of the suspected HFT licensees.  But the 1PPS generally does not fit those authorized freqs.  To me it makes no sense that one does (wideband), one does not (1 PPS), and they would be related.

Both Kiwi TDOA and other measurements have the sources from the same general area.  But other than that I cannot resolve a connection between them.

T!
T!
Mojave Desert, California USA

Offline Token

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #115 on: November 17, 2018, 1349 UTC »
Update on frequency ranges I have seen the signal in:

6320 to 6510 kHz
7095 to 7300 kHz
8100 to 8450 kHz
10100 to 10150 kHz
12200 to 12450 kHz
14060 to 14350 kHz
18065 to 18160 kHz
21200 to 21300 kHz

T!
T!
Mojave Desert, California USA

Offline andbov

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #116 on: November 18, 2018, 1844 UTC »
Hello, i have received today this signal at 15:00 utc in Roma Italy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB9aTvaywns

I't's the 1 pps PIP ?

73 de IW0HK Andrea

Offline GrahamC

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Re: All 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick logs here please
« Reply #117 on: November 18, 2018, 2011 UTC »
Andrea,


yes, that sounds and on the waterfall looks like the 1 PPS pip / pulse / tick that has been discussed.


cheers, Graham ve3gtc near Ottawa Canada