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Author Topic: Hundreds Of U.S. Flights Canceled As GPS-Based Aircraft Navigation System Fails  (Read 661 times)

Offline ChrisSmolinski

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Chris Smolinski
Westminster, MD
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Online jFarley

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.--    -   ..-.
Joe Farley, Near Chicago
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Offline R4002

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Maybe somebody is regretting switching off all those NDBs.  The NDB (ADF) system and VOR systems should be kept in operation for this exact reason.

U.S. East Coast, various HF/VHF/UHF radios/scanners/receivers

Offline Josh

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Sounds like someone is trying to send a message.
Conveniently located near Vincennes Indiana.

Offline Pigmeat

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Get out the quadrant and the charts.

Offline skeezix

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NDBs are great and simple. It also wouldn't hurt if some of the AM broadcast stations would start being plotted on the aviation charts again.

LORAN needs to rise from the dead. Either LORAN-C or eLORAN. Fire it up, its beyond time.
Minneapolis, MN

Offline Josh

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Get out the quadrant and the charts.

LOL!
Conveniently located near Vincennes Indiana.

Offline BoomboxDX

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Sextants, charts, NDB's, LORAN -- all of the above.

There is too much dependence on just one nav technique, or process. Especially in a day when an anti-sat, EMP or cyber attack could bring it down.

Good luck bringing down every NDB, Vortac, and LORAN site in the country. Doable, sure, but it that actually happened there would be nowhere to land anyway.
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Offline R4002

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The NDBs wouldn't cost that much to keep in operation, I don't think.  Compared to VOR and VORTAC (and don't forget DME!) NDBs are a quick and dirty navigational tool but I would prefer to have full ILS for IFR conditions.  That's assuming a full GPS blackout or enough issues where it cannot be used for aeronautical navigation.

Never mind the fact that if the GPS system was knocked out a lot of other things we use on a daily basis would stop working...like cellular / mobile telephone networks. 
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Offline Pigmeat

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Never mind the fact that if the GPS system was knocked out a lot of other things we use on a daily basis would stop working...like cellular / mobile telephone networks.

And how is that a bad thing?

Josh, the quadrant worked in Columbus time, it will work now, as long as the sky is clear. Dead reckoning is fine when it's not.

Offline JimIO

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I thought the cell/mobile sites were connected by fiber/internet and GPS is whole different system. Anyway, about 25 years ago I said "Next time I fly I'm going to be the pilot".    8)

Offline Josh

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Never mind the fact that if the GPS system was knocked out a lot of other things we use on a daily basis would stop working...like cellular / mobile telephone networks.

And how is that a bad thing?

Josh, the quadrant worked in Columbus time, it will work now, as long as the sky is clear. Dead reckoning is fine when it's not.

Good news, USN has started teaching fresh squid how to use the sextant again.
Conveniently located near Vincennes Indiana.

Online jFarley

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Might be a good time to consider going back to the Beacon and Arrow system.  This should be easy to fold into Infrastructure Week the next time it comes around.

http://www.dreamsmithphotos.com/arrow/States/az/images/34a_24%20LA-A%20phoenix%20sign.jpg
Joe Farley, Near Chicago
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Offline JimIO

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« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 0326 UTC by JimIO »

Offline R4002

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I thought the cell/mobile sites were connected by fiber/internet and GPS is whole different system. Anyway, about 25 years ago I said "Next time I fly I'm going to be the pilot".    8)

Cellular sites are connected via fiber, but in order for the site to work effectively with the sites around it, it needs to know exact time.  GPS provides a cheap accurate time reference source.  Without the time reference source for the base station to compare its own clocks to, the site will eventually lose sync (at least that's my understanding).  Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...

Sextants, a chart and a E6B flight computer.  The US Navy is teaching how to use the E6B flight computer as well, I believe.  In the few hours of flight training that I have had, I did learn how to navigate using the E6B as well as the magnetic compass/gyro compass, how to read (paper) charts, plot a course using VOR and NDB navaids (this was in a Cessna 172L without any GPS equipment whatsoever - only VOR, NDB, DME, a transponder that seemed perpetually set to 1200 and of course the usual VHF comm radio setup).

Hell, I even plotted a (rough) course with the ADF using a local AM broadcast band station as the beacon. 
U.S. East Coast, various HF/VHF/UHF radios/scanners/receivers