We seek to understand and document all radio transmissions, legal and otherwise, as part of the radio listening hobby. We do not encourage any radio operations contrary to regulations. Always consult with the appropriate authorities if you have questions concerning what is permissable in your locale.

Author Topic: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S  (Read 9299 times)

Offline weaksigs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 348
  • Central Florida
    • View Profile
    • Email
RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« on: December 18, 2011, 1552 UTC »

Please take a gander at this site.
Also don't miss the videos on this site.

bonitistic geometry

Is this for real???
Your opinions please even if only a first impression.

http://www.bonito.de/radiojet/infos/en_rj10_home.htm

Central Florida
136' random wire for general HF,
Winradio Excalibur G31 & Kenwood TS-590

Peace!

Offline jFarley

  • Global Moderator
  • DX Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5764
  • near Chicago
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2011, 2319 UTC »
Wow!!!  I am at a loss to wrap my brain around this so far.  I have read paragraphs of typical Babel translation and I still do not get any idea of WTF happens when you press the "DX Channel" button, which as I see it is the crux of the biscuit, at least from the video.  I mean, the "Bonitistic Geometry" principle is summarized, apparently, as:

----------------------------------------------------------
The bonitistische principle can be summarized in a sentence.

The basic principle of bonitistischen geometry is the movement, which is justified triangular, not swinging us their curvature as notorious Magnetfeldlinien presented and concomitantly still at the same time the gravitation explained, because effects are only deviations from the direction of motion.

Thus now the actually necessary geometrical fourth dimension for a space curvature as magnetic line of flux offered, which shortens and points then the 3D-Strecken out, like it to the Einstein sweep magnification comes and like then also still the gravitation explained and, and, and, and everything else.

Bonitistischen geometry offers now completely different perspectives, if one deliberates oneself then finally Kraft of causal thinking and from quantum theology cannot be missionieren. Thus then bonitistische geometry ends finally therein,
 
    that there is only one cause (the movement, the space curvature),
    only one effect (change of the direction of motion)
    and only one speed.

And thus the universe has an extremely primitive principle, with which a any cause and effect can be described, if the almost unbelievable quantity of the possibilities were not there, which so unbelievably complex the whole makes.
----------------------------------------------------------

How this guy's apparently private theory of all things applies to building a better radio (sans AGC) which can miraculously recover information from noise at the click of a button, you got me hanging.  I suppose Claude Shannon might have some insight if he were still with us.
 
Joe Farley, Near Chicago
SDR-IQ / R8 / R7
Remote Resonant Loops for HF and LF / ALA 1530
Active 60" Whip / PA0RDT
QSLS appreciated to:    jfarley44@att.net

Offline Lex

  • Global Moderator
  • DX Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2101
  • Gopher Stomp, Texas
  • i c u
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2011, 1046 UTC »
I don't know anything about the theory behind that receiver, but the video seems to be emphasizing noise reduction to improve the signal to noise ratio.  Even if it's little more than very sophisticated noise reduction, it's potentially useful.  Noise is the main challenge to DXing in most suburban and urban environments, so anything that improves SNR is a good thing.

My only concern about that particular receiver is the website states some key components are in short supply or unavailable right now, but they're accepting advance orders.  That doesn't inspire confidence.  It'd probably be more prudent to state that no orders will be accepted until the necessary components are available.
That li'l ol' DXer from Texas
Unpleasant Frequencies Crew
Al: Palstar R30C & various antennae
Snoopy: Sony ICF-2010
Roger: Magnavox D2935
(Off-air recordings.)
Email=my name at hotmail dot com

Offline weaksigs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 348
  • Central Florida
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2011, 1247 UTC »
There is no question that the principle (as stated on the site) results in the development of an algorithm that does exactly what Lex suggested, reduce noise. If clever software exists this could be just the tool to do that. We are all somewhat familiar with DSP and the number of SDR radios that are currently offered. After reading from this website again software rather than hardware is the key as stated. My initial thought was why have a "DX" button, why not always be in the "DX" mode? It may be the computer power required to push a noise reduction algorithm that could be a limiting factor on other receiver modes or features. All of this is just a guess but even so could these folks offer a new "receiver" or software package at Ham radio on the continent without it being the real McCoy? I don't think anyone attempting to capture a market would comment marketing suicide if all of this was bogus or even misleading. At the very least it seems to be rather captivating and certainly something that we should keep our eyes on. Any further comments?

Hmmmmm..... the nad of analog radio?  I'll wait on that answer!!  How about you all! ??

weaksigs
Central Florida
136' random wire for general HF,
Winradio Excalibur G31 & Kenwood TS-590

Peace!

Offline ChrisSmolinski

  • Administrator
  • Marconi Class DXer
  • *****
  • Posts: 23034
  • Westminster, MD USA
    • View Profile
    • Black Cat Systems
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 1654 UTC »
DSP lets you do all sorts of filtering magic. The main advantages over analog (hardware) filters are that 1. you can realize very "tight" filters that are difficult or impossible to do with real hardware, and 2. you can quickly change the filter parameters.

The problem with DSP being a magic bullet for filtering out interfering signals is that you first need to identify what is the real signal, and what is the interference? Then you want to adjust your filtering to pass the real signal, and reject the interfering signals. The second part may be easier than the first.  If you can identify characteristics of interfering signals, you can automate their rejection, to some extent. This is the principle behind automatic notch filters, that reject hets, for example. It's assumed that a normal broadcast transmission is not going to have a constant large amplitude frequency in the passband. That must be a het, so we'll notch it out. Likewise, a noise blanker decides that repetitive pulses with certain attack/decay characteristics must be QRM, and filters them out. Other types of interference can also be rejected, if you know what they sound like, or how they behave. Maybe one day we'll have a PLASMA TV NOTCH button on radios :-)

You can also use combinations of pass band tuning and bandwidth adjustments to pass as much of the signal of interest as possible, while rejecting the interference, increasing the signal to noise ratio.

With an SDR, or other spectrum display, you can see what frequencies in the passband contain interference, and make intelligent (manual) choices about what to reject.
Chris Smolinski
Westminster, MD
eQSLs appreciated! csmolinski@blackcatsystems.com
NRD 545 / netSDR / AFE822x / AirSpy HF+ / KiwiSDR / 670 ft horizontal loop / 500 ft northeast beverage / 58 ft T2FD / 300 ft south beverage / 43m / 20m / 10m  dipoles / Crossed Parallel Loop

Offline weaksigs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 348
  • Central Florida
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 1905 UTC »
Yep I agree! We need to differentiate between signals and noise as well.
Any algorithm would then need to scan adjacent frequencies or somehow
analyze the spectrum around the desired frequency and then institute
the opposite signals in tune with these superfluous noises and random noise
conditions. We as humans can do this pretty quickly by ear, however if we
cannot hear the signals no decision process can be started. If this radio and
its "noise magic" does work its way beyond my understanding and I don't
even want to think about the math involved.

Hopefully if anyone sees other comments on this system or better yet obtains
one for a side by side comparison of this new alleged "break through" I hope
they share it it with us all. It will be very interesting to see what surfaces.
The best demo at that ham fest in Europe would've been a side by side demo
with a quality receiver. Should we stay tuned?

I hope so-

Thanks Chris!!   :D
Central Florida
136' random wire for general HF,
Winradio Excalibur G31 & Kenwood TS-590

Peace!

Offline jFarley

  • Global Moderator
  • DX Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5764
  • near Chicago
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2011, 2259 UTC »
I agree with just about all the comments made above.  I guess I'm just hung up on the claim that this receiver represents a design hit based on bonitistic geometry.  I've slugged through the translation 3 times now looking for any clue as to how this helps to make a better receiver.  Maybe yes, maybe no, whatever; time to let it go.  What does come through is that it is claimed that a low noise figure is obtained by having no active components between the antenna and the ADC, even though the block diagram clearly shows a pair of active mixers.

The bottom line is "Does this rig meet it's claims"?  I sure hope so!  Would really love to see how this technology, whatever it may be, compares in side-by-side tests with other boxes.  That would be the all important litmus test!

Thanks for bringing this up, weaksigs.  Definitely be watching this!

Joe Farley, Near Chicago
SDR-IQ / R8 / R7
Remote Resonant Loops for HF and LF / ALA 1530
Active 60" Whip / PA0RDT
QSLS appreciated to:    jfarley44@att.net

Offline weaksigs

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 348
  • Central Florida
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2011, 1403 UTC »
 ;D  ;D  ;D

AAAAAAMMMMMMEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNN

I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not sure!!

 :D

Central Florida
136' random wire for general HF,
Winradio Excalibur G31 & Kenwood TS-590

Peace!

Offline ChrisSmolinski

  • Administrator
  • Marconi Class DXer
  • *****
  • Posts: 23034
  • Westminster, MD USA
    • View Profile
    • Black Cat Systems
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2012, 2043 UTC »
"bonitistic geometry" ?? Is g0pher writing marketing for this company?
Chris Smolinski
Westminster, MD
eQSLs appreciated! csmolinski@blackcatsystems.com
NRD 545 / netSDR / AFE822x / AirSpy HF+ / KiwiSDR / 670 ft horizontal loop / 500 ft northeast beverage / 58 ft T2FD / 300 ft south beverage / 43m / 20m / 10m  dipoles / Crossed Parallel Loop

Offline Turbo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 31
    • View Profile
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2012, 2218 UTC »
HF can be a challenge to hear distant stations but there is a lot of accessories to help eliminate a lot of noise bhi dsp speakers,jps nir-10,mfj-1026,i use 4 of the wellbrook active loops theydo an excellent job nulling out interference,radios that have the dsp boards use all these tool they all work excellent just takes time to get the right adjustments..

Regards Lino..
HF RADIOS:
ALINCO DX-R8 (2)
AOR-7030
DRAKE SW-2
GRUNDIG SATELLIT-750
ICOM-R71A,ICOM-R72,ICOM-R75 (2)
PALSTAR-R30A
RFSPACE SDR-IQ (2)
RACAL-6790
TEN TEC-320D,TEN TEC-350,TEN TEC-340


Offline Bowman1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
  • The cornfields of Iowa
  • Boris, Radio Kitty.
    • View Profile
    • HF Radio Review
    • Email
Re: RadioJet IF Receiver 1102S
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2012, 2033 UTC »
After reading some great reviews of this radio from some European DXers, I decided to take the plunge and picked one up one of the first Bonito RadioJet 1102s available from Universal. I've had mine for almost a month now, and its proven to be a very impressive receiver. In fact, I'd say this thing out performs my Drake r8 on weak signal performance, and that is saying an awful lot. I don't know it's the "bonitistic geometry" or the magic pixie dust, but the 1102s just seems a lot more sensitive. Of course the nearly infinite filter bandwidth and shapes of the SDR helps too, but it goes beyond filtering.

The software is listed as v1.0x, and it shows. I still haven't figured out how to record portion of the spectrum later playback, nor have i completely mastered the various volume and gain controls you have to choose from. I would consult my owner's manual, but it reads like it was written in German and then translated by Google. In spite of these shortcomings, you're going to have a hard time beating this radio for $700. It's got it where it counts.

By the way, according to the manual, the minimum requirements to run the software are an Atom processor, so just about any second hand PC will do.
Receivers: Elad FDM-SW2  r390a, WJ-8718, Microtelcom Perseus
Antennas: 65' sloping vertical, Pixel Technologies magnetic loop, Array Solutions SAL-30
QSL info: bowman1 [at] gmail

"Bowman, what are you doing hanging out in grocery store parking lots? Kinda creepy."