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Author Topic: Best MWDX antenna?  (Read 63196 times)

Offline ~SIGINT~

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Re: Best MWDX antenna?
« Reply #285 on: April 01, 2024, 1520 UTC »
Quote
Today I noted a new solar panel installation on the next street. The direction appears to correlate with one of the annoying daytime noise sources, and the 20KHz spacing lends further support to a potentially noisy inverter.

By now, most installers are aware of the potential noise that the inverters can create. I seem to recall seeing something on TV, might have been on "Ask This Old House" about solar panel installations. Installers are supposed to mitigate the issue so I would approach them sooner than later to bring it to their attention.

Electrical noise pollution is a big issue.

Offline RobRich

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Re: Best MWDX antenna?
« Reply #286 on: April 02, 2024, 0126 UTC »
My luck it could be a DIY install as there are are not many panels involved. I still need to check it further with a SA or at least a portable receiver, as admittedly, it might not be related given the number of new houses popping up in my neighborhood.

Perhaps 40 acres in a remote Wyoming location would be the better radio listening solution for me. o.0



Dropped my 31' vertical back down to the previous ground mount location. Same ~2.5:1 hybrid dual-core unun at the feedpoint. Just a ground rod without radials for now as it got dark outside. RG-11 back to the house.

The hybrid unun as designed was intended for a wideband end-fed vertical antenna with minimal RF grounding anyway. It seems to be doing okay so I might forget the radial field for awhile.

The noise profile already looks better IMO, though it is nighttime so I suppose the real check will be tomorrow during the day.



Skimmed multiple bands. I have WWV(B) time signals on 60, 2500, 5000, 10000, 15000, 20000, and 25000 at ~1:30z using the 31' vertical. :)



KiwiSDR 2 at default dB calibrations. 31' vertical fed with a dual-core hybrid unun against a ground rod. -10dB shelf filter under 10MHz.

Acopian VA5H3200 5vDC 32A regulated linear power supply. Straight to the plug on each side. No extra mains filtering, ferrites, etc.

Only 15dB SNR during mid-day as I post this message, versus my Kiwi often reporting in the mid-30s at night even on its previous switching power supply. A loop with the HFDY LZ1AQ-based preamp I have on order might improve the daytime number.

I am using an old router running as a station bridge for testing the 5v PSU. It is on a 12v linear regulated power supply, but the router itself could be contributing to a little longwave noise. I did not bother with ferrites on the LAN cable, either.

Mediumwave:


(click to enlarge)


Longwave:


(click to enlarge)


269KHz is GN in Gainesville, Florida.


(click to enlarge)


40.75KHz is Navy NAU in Puerto Rico.


(click to enlarge)


Here is that "wonderful" 15dB SNR during the day. This is with noise blanking and tweaking the waterfall to better hide some of the noise. I have seen much worse, but yeah, it is not great IMHO.


(click to enlarge)


Again I am hoping the situation improves with a loop actually having moderate decent nulls. Also I still need to check RFI near that house with the solar install.

BTW, noise blanking is one area where I find SDRSharp excels with the Airspy HF+D. Really can comes in handy when needed.



Need to find one of my radial plates, but anyway, there are four ~31' ground radials now under the 31' vertical. It is start.



Tossed this small rechargable hi-z preamp on the 15' loop in a window currently feeding my Tecsun PL-330.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=High+Impedance+Amplifier+Donut+Antenna

Bought mine on AliExpress for ~$16. eBay was just easier to search on my tablet.

It is designed for impedance matching instead of any appreciable gain. Not sure it helps much on MW in a very quick skim of the band, but seems to be doing decent on HF in my limited testing.

An ETM scan of HF BCB bands returned 93 possible stations at 0139z. Noted an image at 2360, but that could just as well be the portable radio. Otherwise I have been listening to MRI, Wolverine Radio, and even some 75m amateur radio as I type this post. Not bad for a portable and indoor antenna IMHO.

Probably would be a decent addition to a small loop or wire antenna for portable HF listening at the beach, park, etc.



Received the LZ1AQ-based HFDY loop kit as well. Wanted to make sure the preamp board works. Deployed the kit in a window, set it to be a shielded loop, and powered it via a 9v battery. Hooked up to my Tecsun PL-330.

A skim of MW is pointing towards decent potential.

I will need to hookup a SDR to check LW.

At ~0500z....

Various European ops working 40m DX and whatever contest.

An op in the Canary Islands working 80m.

On a lark since the HFDY does not have a lowpass filter, an ETM scan of FM BCB band returned 82 possible stations compared to 67 on the radio's own whip.



Experimenting with a couple of TDK ferrite mixes. Trying a N30 toroid and a T65 toroid in series with 10 turns of RG-174 on each.

https://www.tdk-electronics.tdk.com/download/187204/fd7b13cb06de3e2edca6c617ac9de7da/pdf-n30.pdf
https://www.tdk-electronics.tdk.com/download/528846/1598c89da613db594840e493e0ffb9fe/pdf-t65.pdf

I should test the setup with my NanoVNA, but anyway, a quick waterfall skim of 0-30MHz looks decent for a common-mode choke without galvanic isolation.

Exmaple of lower LF with WWVB. Notebook on battery. Airspy HF+D and 31' vertical.


(click to enlarge)


I figure this choke will end up near the feedpoint of my HFDY loop if/when I get around to deploying it.

I obtained TDK N30 binoc ferrites as well. I suspect they likely will compare well with my usual mix 73 binocs for 0-30MHz galvanic isolation chokes.



Changed out the hybrid transformer on the 31' vertical for a LDG 1:1 balun. The RG-11 feedline was rerouted and dramatically shortened.

Once again put a KD9SV common-mode choke near the house entrance.

An eBay "SDR protector" and the earlier mentioned TDK N30/T65 series choke are close to the Airspy HF+D, though I need to get around to swapping that choke for a galvanically isolated one to better cleanup LW and lower.

Now to eventually get around to deploying more than the current four on-ground radials. I am thinking about acquiring some long ribbon cables. 10m 10-wire cables can be found for like a dollar or two shipped via welcome deals at AliExpress. Seems like they would be somewhat easier to deploy in greater quantities. Attach then separate as ya' go. On the downside I suppose they might even be CCS wire, but I have used CCS speaker wire for on-ground radials in the past with okay results if sealing the connectors and ends from water intrusion.



Changed out the 1:1 balun on the 31' vertical for a 4:1 unun. I ran it that way for years anyway, and it seems to be an okay compromise. Still need to work on the radial field.

^Mutiple posts merged.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2024, 2212 UTC by RobRich »
Tampa, FL USA | US Map Grid EL88
My Public Receivers: KiwiSDR 2 | Web-888 SDR
Airspy HF+ Discovery | 2x Msi2500 Msi001 | 2x RTL-SDR V3 + NE602 | 2x RTL-SDR V4
148' + 60' Loops-on-Ground | 30' Inverted Delta Loop | 31' Vertical | 18' End-Fed Vertical

Offline RobRich

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Re: Best MWDX antenna?
« Reply #287 on: June 04, 2024, 2236 UTC »
Now this one is interesting. Paru (Arch AUR app) built an updated SDR++ checkout earlier today, and it has started reading signals around 10db or so lower than GQRX and SDRSharp. Tested against my Airspy HF+D.

Same FFT size for all three. Window algorithms are different but not that much different.

Checked recent SDR++ commits. Nothing stands out in a (very) quick skim.

Reported SNR values are about the same, so I am not too concerned; just kind of a "Hmmm...." situation.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2024, 2250 UTC by RobRich »
Tampa, FL USA | US Map Grid EL88
My Public Receivers: KiwiSDR 2 | Web-888 SDR
Airspy HF+ Discovery | 2x Msi2500 Msi001 | 2x RTL-SDR V3 + NE602 | 2x RTL-SDR V4
148' + 60' Loops-on-Ground | 30' Inverted Delta Loop | 31' Vertical | 18' End-Fed Vertical

Offline ThaDood

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Re: Best MWDX antenna?
« Reply #288 on: June 10, 2024, 1144 UTC »
The Kenwood TS-2000 has a separate Beverage Antenna input, but only good for LF to 30MHz. Then, The Icom IC-745 has the RCA Phono Jacks Loop-Around jumper, where you can pull that jumper and add a separate antenna for receive there. However, to have only specific separate TX and RX antenna connectors? Well, a repeater comes to mind. 
A war is never really over. When you believe that it is, all that has been accomplished is the planting of the seeds for the next, eventual, conflict.

Offline RobRich

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Re: Best MWDX antenna?
« Reply #289 on: June 10, 2024, 2144 UTC »
AFAIK, lots of Icom HF models from that era have the jumper arrangement. It is a good place to add a preselector, MW highpass filter, etc. without having to use extra RX/TX switching.

That said, I think ya' meant to post here....

https://www.hfunderground.com/board/index.php/topic,130371.0.html ;)



Deployed a 60' loop-on-ground for my nightstand radio, which is currently an ATS-20+ with aftermarket firmware.

I did not feel like building a mix 73 1:1 isolation transformer. I rembered having several 4:1 TV VHF/UHF transformers, so I have one at the antenna feedpoint for now. About the ratio, impedances will be all over the place anyway. I used the same model tranformer to connect my National NC‐125 to coax, so I knew it worked okay enough for HF and MW.  It likely is down a few to maybe several dB at lower frequencies, but I have noted there is still plenty of signal down to MW for casual listening, so whatever IMO.

I tossed a "SDR protector" in line as I have not verified any ESD protection inside the ATS-20+. I tend to doubt there is any, as I know my previous ATS-20 non-plus did not have an ESD chip installed. I ended up adding diodes and a bleeder resistor to the older model.

Also added a MFJ-1020B for preselction if needed plus added gain at upper HF since LoG antennas often tend to rolloff above mid-HF.



Nightstand radio setup replaced with HTPC (older notebook) and RTL-SDR V4 connected to the bedroom 50" HDTV. Plenty of ferrites as well. Listening to a 40m amatuer QSO in the background at the moment.



After another round of radial field damage, the 31' vertical is back once again on the 10.5' mast. Using a 4:1 unun at the feedpoint and RF grounded against the mast and guy lines for now. Common-mode choke back near the house entrance, along with a SDR protector and common-mode chokes near the SDR.

I probably need to get a galvanically isolated choke in there somewhere. Anyway, I have WWVB on 60Hz with a decent copy along with various 11m and 10m signals sat the upper end of HF. Actually I spotted an area 2m repeater and multiple NOAA frequencies in VHF as well, but those are mostly just a bonus IMO.



Installed a new galvanic isolation transformer at my Airspy HF+D. Isolated 4:4 windows on 3 stacked mix 73 binocular cores. Seems okay from LW through VHF.

I might eventually add another isolation transformer at perhaps ground level below the 4:1 unun on the 31' vertical.

Multiple posts merged

Finally did an isolation transformer on a TDK N30 binocular ferrite. Just one small ferrite with isolated 4:4 windings. Seems to be doing okay for MW through VHF at my bedroom RTL-SDR V4 receiver. The TDK B62152P0008X030 is $0.32 each at Mouser. A few cents higher at Digikey and likely others.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/EPCOS-TDK/B62152A0008X030

Probably posted this before, but anyway:

https://dh1tw.de/2021/06/whats-the-best-ferrite-material-for-a-common-mode-choke/

Speaking of the bedroom receiver, I am am likely replace the 60' LoG. I am thinking just a vertical wire on a 10' bamboo crappie pole against a ground rod. Perhaps a cheap 9:1 receive unun, or maybe wind my own unun on a small TDK N30 toroid.



Replaced with the  4:1 TV transformer with a LDG 1:1 balun on the 60' loop-on-ground. HF seems a little better in a quick skim. The 4:1 TV transformer likely would have sufficed for a receiver with high sensitivity and dynamic range, but that antenna is feeding a RTL-SDR V4.

I still need to get around to changing the feedpoint balun on my 148' LoG to perhaps just a mix 73 isolation transformer. Right now there is a Nooelec V2 9:1 balun, which was handy in the spare parts at the time. Okay at HF, though the ratio is probably rolling off some performance at MW and under due to the loop's already low impedance at such low frequencies.

I have yet to test it, but I did just receive an inexpensive active RF distributor. 1 input to 4 outputs. Integrated battery as well.

https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-Active-RF-Splitter-Isolation-Distributor.html

Claimed specs:

Quote
The RF signal splitter operates in a frequency range of 100kHz to 150MHz. It offers minimal insertion loss (<0.8dB), superior output-to-input isolation (>80dB), and excellent output-to-output isolation (>60dB).



Received a preamp from Aliexpress earlier this week as well. The model with the gold-colored enclosure and integrated battery.

https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-100k%2525252d6GHz-low-noise-gain-amplifier.html

Quote
Power supply: 5V 70ma;
Frequency range: 100K-6GHz;
Ultra low noise figure, 0.4 dB NF at 1.95 GHz;
High gain at 1.95 GHz, 20 dB gain;
High linearity,+35 dBm output IP3;
High input power robustness,+22 dBm continuous wave;

I did not take measurements, but gain is likely over 20dB at HF and lower frequencies. No real comments on added noise as I am using it mostly for a MW/HF with just a RTL-SDR V4.

Without upstream attenuation it does show some overloading with my 60' LoG, but that is pretty much expected here. Radio Marti signal levels tend to be ridiculously high at my QTH. It probably would suffice better with a small vertical.

There is now a 20dB attenuator upstream from it to deal with the potential overload. I opted for a CATV attenautor,  which might be YMMV on low frequencies. Actual gain numbers aside, I am more or less using the attenator and preamp combo to deal with the significant impedance mistmatch between my 60' LoG and RTL-SDR V4.

I did spot some very minor Radio Marti breakthrough on upper HF earlier this morning, but that is likely far more related to the limited dynamic-range of the RTL-SDR V4 as dropping its own gain setting largely resolved the issue. Otherwise it appears to be working pretty much as expected. Not bad for a cheap preamp IMHO.



HFDY active loop deployed and currently feeding the KiwiSDR 2. Configured as a shielded loop. The mast is just wire tied to a fence pole in the backyard for now, so I will have to work on that later. Running RG-6QS as well as I did not feel like dealing with RG-11 today. Anyway.

Power is via a 9v linear regulated wall-wart. The HFDY preamp tends to favor 8v for optimized performance in another person's testing. I am likely somewhere in the ballpark when considering voltage drop across the feedline.

I suspect it will not outright compete with my 31' vertical for signal level and SNR, but propagation has been horrid today due to solar weather, so that is perhaps a test for later.



Moved my Kiwi back to the S9v31' vertical with the previously mentioned little to no gain hi-z preamp at the Kiwi to smooth out the impedance excursions. Huge difference in reported signal level and SNR. WWVB is also back in the waterfall.

Current local SNR measurements are 36 dB (0-30 MHz) and 26 dB (1.8-30 MHz). That puts me in the top ~30 of Kiwis at the moment. :)

http://rx.linkfanel.net/snr.html

Admittedly those are nighttime numbers, and as expected, daytime SNR drops considerably here.

I get the feeling a good part of the Kiwi SNR measurement requires a decent signal level.

Actually the perceived SNR of the HFDY loop seemed okay IMO. Just somewhat low signal levels.

The HFDY might fair better with my Airspy HF+D, which has far better sensitivity and dynamic range than a Kiwi.



Status could change at anytime, but my Kiwi is online at the moment.

http://21084.proxy.kiwisdr.com:8073



HFDY on my Airspy HF+D is decent so far. Noted WWVB on LW. Quick screenshot of lower MW:


(click to enlarge




I am listening to multiple frequencies with South American milsat pirates via Airspy HF+D and HFDY active loop. lol



Meanwhile despite SNR values dropping drastically due to solar weather and extremely poor propagation, the Kiwi with 31' vertical has been logging 15m FT8 traffic tonight (~0400z) from South America, Oceania, China, etc. Noted loggings at 15000-16000+ kilometers from the Marshall Island and Australia.



Not sure I call it a weak signal antenna, but anyway, the HFDY loop does appear to be helping mitigate RFI this afternoon. The noise blanker in SDRSharp barely moves the noise floor on the 40m amateur band compared to the filter's usual few dB drop for ~7MHz during afternoon hours for my 31' vertical.

Afternoon noise floors at the moment:

80m - S2-S3
40m - S2-S3
20m - ~S2
15m - ~S1
10m - <S1

Looks like I hopefully found a decent null. The null is somewhat NNW/SSE. That might affect some NA signals but probably not enough to matter for casual listening.

Part of it is down to the somewhat low gain, but that is still not bad for an inexpensive active loop.

Parts of longwave do to have moderate to considerable RFI, though again, it is a $30 antenna kit. ;)

I suspect the HFDY loop might eventually be feeding one or more of my secondary receivers.



Suspect I might be able to coax another dB or few SNR for the Kiwi. It is just temporarily hooked up near a feedline for testing. I still need to sort out the the cabling, add ferrites, etc.



Temporarily moved the Kiwi to my 148' loop-on-ground for testing. Current SNR is 40 dB (0-30 MHz), 35 dB (1.8-30 MHz). which puts me #14 on the Kiwi SNR list at the moment. That is with a cheap preamp (with output attenuation) at the receiver and a little 9:1 receiving balun at the loop feedpoint. o.0 Sadly daytime SNR will be another matter.



Prototype inverted delta loop deployed. 2x 10' bamboo fishing poles in V formation. ~10' 24ga copper wire on each side of the triangle. Bottom apex is maybe 18" above ground and fed via a 1:1 (4:4) mix 73 isolation transformer. I still need to add a choke or isolation transformer at the SDR end. Using an existing RG-6QS feedline for now.

That should be in-plane directivity at lower frequencies transitioning more to perpendicular directivity at higher frequencies. In-plane approximately NNW/SSE at the moment.

Some daytime dBFS noise floor numbers as reported by SDRSharp with default FFT and Airspy HF+D SDR....

10m: -135
15m: -133
20m: -131
40m: -122
80m: -112
160m: -125

MW high: -129
MW low: -125

JA  NDB 344KHz: ~120
GN NDB 269KHz: ~120
WWV 60KHz: ~122

Those are general floor numbers. as naturally there are higher noise excursions due to narrower signal noises and usual summer static crashing.

I was able to null some wideband noise, but there are still a few spots of local daytime noise. The narrower RFI is more a few narrow spots instead of extremely wideband, so I suppose "whatever" for now.

Hopefully even lower nighttime noise numbers, especially if that RFI is solar panel installs.

Assuming the prototype works out, I have two 13' fiberglass fishing poles to build a slightly larger and probably more sturdy inverted delta loop. Not that I really another 11m antenna, but a ~36' perimeter wire would be big enough to transmit on 11m as well.

^Mutiple posts merged.



Ordered a Web-888 network SDR. More info:

https://www.hfunderground.com/board/index.php/topic,133712.0.html

Suppose it might be motivation for me to get around to a tweaking the inverted delta loop design or and otherwise more effective daytime antenna solution here. At night local time my Kiwi using my 148' LoG is often in the top 20 receivers in SNR rankings. :)

http://rx.linkfanel.net/snr.html

 I have not even bothered optimizing the basic LoG, either. It is ~148' of pet fence copper wire, a 9:1 balun, RG-6 coax, and (currently) a rather cheap preamp. I keep intending to rebuild and tweak my previous coaxial "shielded" LoG design.

Daytime ranking falls typically down into the hundreds due to local RFI. :/ Probably neighborhood solar panel installs, though it would seem perhaps not the particular install I was originally thinking. I can null some of it with the inverted delta loop, though vertical loop antennas tried so far are not comparing well to my 148' LoG at night. I am suspect a time-based antenna switch setup is in order.... if/when I ever bother looking into it.



Swapped the cheap preamps for W7IUV-style preamps on the Kiwi and Web-888 receivers. Waterfalls are cleaner. Might have to tweak the attenuators.

I have a couple of better preamps on order.

https://www.sv1afn.com/en/product-category-5/high-linearity-pre-amp-(lna)-for-hf-receivers-30-khz-30-mhz.html

The 148' LoG needs a different balun. Currently a 9:1 that is rolling off below MW. Probably will go back to a 1:1 balun.

The 30' inverted delta loop actually needs a preamp at the feedpoint, even if just for impedance matching. Maybe later.



Picked up yet another noise source. There is house being built like 300' away. Suppose I will look to see if there is temp power drop.

Web-888 is on my 31' vertical. No preamp needed there.

Kiwi is on my 148' LoG as usual, but it is now using a low-gain impedance matching preamp. Overall SNR is about the same. Took a slight SNR hit on HF. Anyway.



30' inverted delta loop with W7IUV preamp near the Airspy HF+D SDR. Yeah, the preamp needs outside, but anyway.


(click to enlarge)


N4LWO beacon on 600m band.


(click to enlarge)




Looks like it might be time to redo or perhaps even repurpose my 31' vertical. It has picked up some mid- to upper-HF RFI not present on my 148' LoG and 30' inverted delta loop. Hmmm.

I have been thinking about an active dipole. At least it would be horizontally polarized and perhaps have a slight to moderate null that could prove beneficial.

^Mutiple posts merged.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 1955 UTC by RobRich »
Tampa, FL USA | US Map Grid EL88
My Public Receivers: KiwiSDR 2 | Web-888 SDR
Airspy HF+ Discovery | 2x Msi2500 Msi001 | 2x RTL-SDR V3 + NE602 | 2x RTL-SDR V4
148' + 60' Loops-on-Ground | 30' Inverted Delta Loop | 31' Vertical | 18' End-Fed Vertical

Offline RobRich

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Re: Best MWDX antenna?
« Reply #290 on: December 02, 2024, 1959 UTC »
Think I have traced my latest and seemingly largest 24/7 RFI source back to a nearby power pole. Now to see if the power company agrees and hopefully resolves it.

Used a tinySA, car radio on AM, and a scanner tuned to 120MHz AM to narrow down the potential source.

MW via Airspy HF+D and 30' inverted delta loop with preamp:


(click to enlarge)


0-30MHz via KiwiSDR 2 and 148' LoG:


(click to enlarge)


OTOH, an accessible lot on the street behind mine seemed considerably quieter on AM via car radio. Worst case I could try deploying some loops and/or active miniwhips over there. I am not really fond of running like 200' (or more?!) of coax, but I have lots of RG-6 and RG-11 anyway.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2024, 2008 UTC by RobRich »
Tampa, FL USA | US Map Grid EL88
My Public Receivers: KiwiSDR 2 | Web-888 SDR
Airspy HF+ Discovery | 2x Msi2500 Msi001 | 2x RTL-SDR V3 + NE602 | 2x RTL-SDR V4
148' + 60' Loops-on-Ground | 30' Inverted Delta Loop | 31' Vertical | 18' End-Fed Vertical

 

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