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Author Topic: Finally: WINS daytime !  (Read 371 times)

Offline NQC

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Finally: WINS daytime !
« on: May 21, 2021, 2309 UTC »
Hey All,

2030 UTC  log,  QTH park across the street, Super radio I with Select- A -Tenna. Sun at 45 deg in the West.

570 WMCA  A  very good   catch ,also a new one for daytime. Being so low in frequency  probably gave it a boost .Weak and  steady but beat up kind of badly  by local 590 WEZE QRM.

660 WFAN strong, Ho Hum , common daytime. Slapped around some w/ QRM from WSRO regional on 650 .

710 WOR, another "expected" daylight station, good signal.No QRM, strongest catch.

880 WCBS also a  daytime common and strong but  also had strong QRM from  local 890

1010 WINS Weak (!), only could be copied with S-A-T  (Others above were usually better with S-A-T, but could go it alone at times.). S-A-T and SR-1 geometry ,alignment and interplay had to be EXACT to 1/8 or 1/4 ". Super easy to  lose.Rapid and  serious flutter that also rose and fell in slow QSB.Yet  another study in propagation. I have wanted this one for many years and finally snagged it ! BOO YEAH !!!  :)

NO sign of 1010 WCNL in NH , even though I swung around and looked for them. During my previous attempt in the  park  CNL was fair or good and WINS was the one that was  missing. Go figure . I  copied  CNL at seaside  10 MI SE of here  maybe a year ago  , so it wasn't a new catch at the park.

For some reason I REALLY like working 1010 re CFRB  ( a bunch  of times , with my QTH in their full dead null. Also ,  had a recent CFRB /CFRX on 6070 Kc ),WCNL and of course "1010 WINS" ( which it DOES !).

Gotta figure out why some day time New Yorker  bang in here and others stink . Could it be transmitter location vs NYC Skyscraper alignment to me, causing a ground wave foul up ? Possible?  Any comments re this ?  I need to draw some  map lines when I get a chance.

K
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 2330 UTC by NQC »
Station main receiver : Bed springs to  blue razor blade detector to 2000 ohm cans to steam  radiator. Grid FN 42

Offline Ct Yankee

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2021, 1311 UTC »
As a former New Yorker and now a Connecticut resident, I listen to a lot of NYC am radio.  I believe your reception problems are two fold, antenna location and azimuth.  Some NYC stations are broadcasting just off The Bronx (WCBS, WFAN - sister stations) while others are broadcasting from New Jersey.  From your description, you are having more difficulties with the broadcasts originating from New Jersey.  I am probably half the distance to NYC that you are and have to move my radio around during daytime to pick up the "NJ" stations.  Also, many of the NJ-based transmitters tend to focus on NYC, coastal Connecticut, and points west for their primary reception area.  WCBS and WFAN intentionally send their signal into northern Connecticut (thank goodness, both baseball flagships) as part of their primary reception area.  You can hear the difference in the NYC stations if you ever drive west on I-80 in Pennsylvania, the "NJ" stations are heard clearer and longer.  Nice catch on WINS.  There is another NYC station to try, WBBR 1130 am, part of Bloomberg Radio.

Try this for drawing your lines: https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WABC&service=AM&h=D
« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 2014 UTC by Ct Yankee »
Zenith T/O G500, Zenith T/O Royal 7000, Emerson AR-176, Zenith 8S154, T/O 7G605 (Bomber), Tecsun PL-880, Zenith 5S320, Realistic DX 160 using 40 feet of copper wire. 
QTH:  Temporarily in Oakland, CA - just to the left of the USA
qsl please to:  jamcanner@comcast.net  (Thank you)

Offline pinto vortando

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2021, 2004 UTC »
Daytime DXing is the true test of an AM radio.  A pocket portable will catch skywave 500 -1000 miles out at night,
the propagation is doing all of the work.  Daytime it is all up to the radio.
Anyway, enjoy your listening from the park, best time of the year to be outdoors.  :)
Lots of parks around here just a 5-10 mile bicycle ride away to get relief from the neighborhood QRM.

btw, CFRB usually weak but copyable here daytime with a good radio, most of the signal is directed away from me.
At night the frequency becomes a jumble but WINS can usually be heard.

CFRX can be heard most days but need an outdoor antenna.
Das Radiobunker somewhere in Michigan

Offline NQC

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2021, 0133 UTC »
Hey Guys,

Yankee- I will try for BBR daytime . They STORM in here at night. Gotta find their QTH and check pattern info.

INS is a bit of an odd station. They ever so slightly change pattern from day to night.Really just a bit of small change in the spurious lobes to the SW, etc.That's it.The "full"  power/ "Northeast" heading circle has a long circumference   before it takes  it's drop down to near zero ( using 4 tower interactive   phasing ). The "big" lobe essentially constant day or night, I am not  sure why they even mess with it   .The main lobe is very broad toward my direction. I am  not sure if there is any actual field gain toward me or if  it's just pattern shaping to have  a  roughly half circle at the same strength that  a 50 Kw single tower would have at 360 degrees . I'm interested in what the actual feed line level is.

The take away is that INS "should" have   most of  same punch as 50 Kw  WCBS, which I believe is a single tower. CBS may have a small or moderate edge being lower in the band. But  CBS's actual location seems to be the key. It is FAR more advantageous to Boston than INS - which is "Stuck in the mud , somewhere in the swamps of Jersey " (to quote Springsteen) AKA Lyndhurst.Still haven't made map lines, but I am going with the "blocked by a wall of skyscrapers" theory  for now.

CFRB 1010- is fully nulled to near zero toward me, probably not even a prayer of daytime copy. If the propagation   favors me ,it's  sometimes fair. I do hear it at times , but almost always crushed below INS, unless they drop audio for second.

WCNL 1010 NH  is running 10 kw into a near dummy load (62 ft single tower)  at around 100 mi. They "stop by" every now and then, but don't seem very dependable  unless you are in a REALLY good location in MA.

Stuff in the way seems to make a difference. My buddy was an USAF radio tech and    built the most of BPD voting system on 460 Mhz by himself. He noted that WBZ ( at around ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND BAKING WATTS in his direction at 10 miles ) was robbed "somewhat" by   the WPLM array which he was practically  next to , but on the far side from BZ.

Pinto - Yep , darkness means a LOT on AM everything , even to simple radios. My "Boy's" two transistor  pocket reflex radio pulled in ALL of the "Usual East Coast" suspects on Dxpedition in NH, but many at super low audio levels. The Select-A -Tenna brought nearly all of them out of the mud (ie WBT, etc) and the Radio Shack  "Pocket Mini Amp"   really pepped things up to LOUD.

I have always been interested in 49 Meter relays, ie CHNS  (CHNX now QRT), etc. They used to do this in Germany too. Many of the BMW's, etc had a small slice of 49 M on the car radio, but no other SW coverage.

K

« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 0158 UTC by NQC »
Station main receiver : Bed springs to  blue razor blade detector to 2000 ohm cans to steam  radiator. Grid FN 42

Offline Ct Yankee

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2021, 1419 UTC »


There is some merit to the "skyscraper" theory.  WFAN/WCBS would be virtually free of tall buildings in their transmission to you, while the other stations' signals would cross Manhattan to reach you.  My eyes almost popped out of my head when you mentioned Lyndhurst, not a very well known municipality except for its proximately to Giants Stadium.  Half of my first generation Italian ancestors fled the Lower East Side for Lyndhurst, still have much extended family in the town.
Zenith T/O G500, Zenith T/O Royal 7000, Emerson AR-176, Zenith 8S154, T/O 7G605 (Bomber), Tecsun PL-880, Zenith 5S320, Realistic DX 160 using 40 feet of copper wire. 
QTH:  Temporarily in Oakland, CA - just to the left of the USA
qsl please to:  jamcanner@comcast.net  (Thank you)

Offline pinto vortando

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2021, 1522 UTC »

Pinto - Yep , darkness means a LOT on AM everything , even to simple radios. My "Boy's" two transistor  pocket reflex radio pulled in ALL of the "Usual East Coast" suspects on Dxpedition in NH, but many at super low audio levels. The Select-A -Tenna brought nearly all of them out of the mud (ie WBT, etc) and the Radio Shack  "Pocket Mini Amp"   really pepped things up to LOUD.

I have always been interested in 49 Meter relays, ie CHNS  (CHNX now QRT), etc. They used to do this in Germany too. Many of the BMW's, etc had a small slice of 49 M on the car radio, but no other SW coverage.

K

Can get many of the east coast flamethrowers at night on my lowly xtal set (has a hot NOS 1N34).  WCBS and WRVA are especially loud but the biggest signal in here is WBZ with all its power sent west towards me.  Enjoy listening to the Dan Rae Nightside show.

Got an old (50+yr) QSL from CHNX, 6130, 500 watts.  The SW is gone but the CHNS call letters live on as an FM station in Halifax.
Das Radiobunker somewhere in Michigan

Offline NQC

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2021, 1744 UTC »
Hey All

 Yankee -Most of my wife's family live in Kearny.

Pinto- my best crystal set Dx from Boston was Radio Vision Cristiana Turks and Caicos, Caribbean on 530. Lots more much  closer in (WWL, WSB,WSM,WBBM+ many Cubans ,etc) .

 From Springfield , MO on a giant loop crystal set  we heard a probable Brazilian- up quick to loud for around 45 seconds to one minute and then gone for good.   I have done shortwave crystal from both sides of the Atlantic- VOA copied while in Germany, Euros copied while in US , etc.

I am eventually going to get back into crystal /simple single or two transistor (or tube) rigs as much as my QTH /situation now allow.

Please describe your crystal set circuit- antenna /ground ,how many tuning stages, audio stage/matching /phones, etc.

K
« Last Edit: May 23, 2021, 1746 UTC by NQC »
Station main receiver : Bed springs to  blue razor blade detector to 2000 ohm cans to steam  radiator. Grid FN 42

Offline pinto vortando

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2021, 1911 UTC »
NQC,

Nice Caribbean xtal set DX !

My set is nothing exotic...  spider web coil with a 365 uuF cap and a 1N34 developing signal across a 47K ohm.
The antenna is just 50' of wire run up the side of the house and across the roof.
The key is the antenna tuner that ties it all together.  Another spider web coil tuned by a 365 uuF cap that can
be switched in parallel or series with the coil.  The tuner is inductively coupled to the xtal set. 
Got to admit to some cheating in recent years to help my aging ears, been using a LM386 signal tracer to boost the
audio output.

btw, you mentioned WBBM... their signal here is not nearly as strong as WGN or WLS,
       could be their shared antenna (WSCR) and reduction in power when they moved
Das Radiobunker somewhere in Michigan

Offline NQC

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2021, 1314 UTC »
Hey Pinto,

Nice sounding crystal set, with the
proof being in how many stations you can receive.

BZ claims to “ cover” ( at fair or better ? ) 38 out of the lower 48 states.

All my big litz sets are long gone , along with the big antennas.A few good tid bits left in my shop  for crystal set use, but I am pretty much starting from scratch again.

We’ll see.

I ran some bearings , a bit of a surprise. A rough line from Boston to  the Meadowlands area ( for WINS, WMCA and WBBR) does not run into the WALL of skyscrapers in mid or lower Manhattan. The path is more (if not much more)  in line with  Haarlem ,New Rochelle and MT Vernon.Maybe  there are still "enough" (?)   tall buildings Uptown and beyond. I just would expect  a more serious  "ground  screen " to be  from Mid Town or Southward though. Uptown is more "spread out" ,if I recall correctly.But  I guess what you hear is what you get .

WMCA should have , in theory, been in much  WORSE  trouble   at only FIVE Kw (at least five  into the feed line , again unknown of any  net gain from pattern) .Yet they did  a "good amount" better than WINS (which still wasn't much !). FWIW, their pattern is similar to INS, with full horsepower in my direction  but robbed  from the  W or SW.Is 570 really SO much better than 1010 ? It seems so.

I can't explain this one , except only to say perhaps ( perhaps) that this shielding phenomena (IF that is what is being encountered) might be a lot more "nuanced" than I would have expected. Maybe a  narrow slice of pie close in could  get quite wide at 200 + mi. "Transitional" medium wave (1010) and lower medium wave (570) RF  may be acting much more like light than I would have expected.

Obviously , "something" was up , especially with WINS. Now it's just harder to speculate.


WBBR daytime will be on the next attempt. :-X

K
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 1419 UTC by NQC »
Station main receiver : Bed springs to  blue razor blade detector to 2000 ohm cans to steam  radiator. Grid FN 42

Offline Ct Yankee

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2021, 1715 UTC »

Oh yes, WEPN (ESPN flagship) 1050 am is also a 50,000 watt daytimer from NY.  They are transmitting from NJ.  This is where WFAN started until they slid down the dial to 660 am.

Zenith T/O G500, Zenith T/O Royal 7000, Emerson AR-176, Zenith 8S154, T/O 7G605 (Bomber), Tecsun PL-880, Zenith 5S320, Realistic DX 160 using 40 feet of copper wire. 
QTH:  Temporarily in Oakland, CA - just to the left of the USA
qsl please to:  jamcanner@comcast.net  (Thank you)

Offline NQC

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2021, 1843 UTC »
Thanks Yankee.

I will put that one on the list.


K
« Last Edit: May 24, 2021, 1907 UTC by NQC »
Station main receiver : Bed springs to  blue razor blade detector to 2000 ohm cans to steam  radiator. Grid FN 42

Offline NQC

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Re: Finally: WINS daytime !
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2021, 2154 UTC »
Hey All,

Another attempt today. 2115 UTC quick trip to park : This time on ATS -803a with Select-A-Tenna. Tried Wide/Narrow/Exalted Carrier

WMCA 570, maybe their beat note, that's it. NO audio.
WBBR 1130 ditto
WEPN 1050 ditto
WINS 1010 tiny BITS of audio now and then.Hyper weak traces barefoot w/o S-A-T. So  WINS "WINS" this round (if call this "winning").

Didn't bother on the other New Yorkers, I knew  they would  be in there for me, just a quick weekday screaming attempt on the "weaklings ". Maybe the Super Rad would have done better, but I also like having  the narrow mode and BFO option on the 803. Folks claim the 803 is quite sensitive, but the ferrite is a bit small .Even as good a radio as the Super Rad is , at around 9" could do a bit better in the null dept.

So I kind of close this "phase".

Also did a bit of  lightning "DF'ing" on 520 Kc  w/S-A-T  and 150 Kc barefoot on strong storms around 100 miles out.

Maybe time to try something else for NYC daytime.

0030 UTC.Back in  park using Radio Shack 12-201a pocket radio, barefoot- no S-A-T or any help at all .

You sure don't need much for night !   30 minutes after local sunset   had WINS ROARING IN .Tilting ferrite  90 degrees out of polarization brought near ZERO reduction.NO problem AT ALL from WBZ on 1030.

Also maybe a bit of CHHA 1610 (despite being in their null). A bit of Spanish rolled up  and then down (just above local huge  WUNR on 1600, also in Spanish)

French- maybe on 1620 or 1630 rolls up and down, good  at times - pirate ?

WWRU NJ 1650 up big  but QSB

WRCR NY 1700 up big , but QSB



A nice little radio, one of my "ultra light" Dx rigs. The last AM only pocket radio that Radio Shack sold.

K
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 0116 UTC by NQC »
Station main receiver : Bed springs to  blue razor blade detector to 2000 ohm cans to steam  radiator. Grid FN 42