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Author Topic: About this forum  (Read 1942 times)

Offline Ray Lalleu

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About this forum
« on: June 21, 2022, 1458 UTC »
This is a forum about what is going on in Europe,
mainly about pirate radio, but not exclusively.

There are other good sites and blogs with the same target,
(I'm currently looking at those from ukdxer, Achim,  JBK, Irish Paul, LHU, Toutatis, Rick)
but no one has a strict rule to exclude news not from pirate stations,
and they are regularly listing stations said to be legal and licenced in some country.

The real difference in Europe is not to know if a station is pirate or legal, but if it is a private station or a station backed by a government or a powerful religious or commercial group. That difference is quite evident. The difference between the small stations, pirate or legal, are not that evident. Many are in the grey line, using legal or pirate relays (sometimes even in parallel),   and often it is impossible to know when a station is going legal, or going back to illegal. Even some licenced stations (or said so) seem to jump to unlicenced frequencies, or relaying unlicenced stations. Also many legal stations have their roots in pirate days and in the offshore era. And Europe is divided in many countries, each one with its own rules. Some stations in Ireland are broadcasting everyday for more than 20 years without a due licence and have never been sued, are they 'pirates' ? Each country has its own politics about sueing or not sueing the stations in the forgotten places of the radio spectrum.

So I don't want this forum being ruled by 'pirater than thou' !
This site is for listeners.

The stricter rules on this forum are the following :
- it's about Europe (so far the nearby regions of Northern Africa and Middle East are not really excluded, but there is absolutely nothing to say about those regions)
- it's about fresh loggings from the airwaves
- it's about 'broad'casting (one to many)
- the news must be as accurate as possible
- the subject lines must follow the format rule
- the BIG government, religious and commercial voices are moved to Shortwave Broadcasting

Less stricter is that the news must have an international target. Very small stations in MW or FM, not heard outside of their vicinity, or never talking to abroad, are not really interesting for most of the readers here. Those interested about the smallest Dutch stations on the MW (extended or not), should find a specialised site.


edit by Shortwave_listener on the 29th of Aug 2022 :

The same applies to Radio Hooligans (радиохулиганы) from Russia. They are not interested in an international audience and boring to most listers here. Those interested in such stations should find another site. More information on these stations can be found on the "Radio Hooligans" page of the Wiki.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 1352 UTC by Ray Lalleu »
D/E/F/G/It/Sp : Dutch/English/French/German/Italian/Spanish
+/- : about 0.02 offset, ++/-- 0.03/0.04 offset
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Offline Misti-Radio

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2022, 1727 UTC »
Good evening Ray.
 a Question: No more reports for MW stations here ???

Greetings,
Misti-Radio
John

Offline Ray Lalleu

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2022, 1911 UTC »
Good evening Ray.
 a Question: No more reports for MW stations here ???

Greetings,
Misti-Radio
John
I think MW (and MW-Xtended) stations should go on here, but preferably when they can be heard in foreign countries, because this is an international forum. Just common sense and looking what can get replies ! (I use Twente SDR because my MW antenna is still not repaired, but I try to widen the target to listeners in all Europe - and I have no time to listen to everything). So go on, but it's better on evenings, it's better if the station does a good job about music, and it's better if the station is speaking too. If only any station could be half as good as Misti Radio !
D/E/F/G/It/Sp : Dutch/English/French/German/Italian/Spanish
+/- : about 0.02 offset, ++/-- 0.03/0.04 offset
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Offline kris

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2022, 2112 UTC »
  MW FB stations tend to be mainly oriented towards local or only national audiences, broadcast mostly "national" music and speak the national language. This makes them boring for foreign listeners. They are not as popular as on the American continent, where English or Spanish are the natural environment in a large area.
   With poor HF propagation I sometimes listen to MW, which is broadcast by not only Dutch but also Greek and Serbian stations and I have a dilemma where to describe it!
   In my youth, gray and technically poor, it was music on MW waves that fascinated us and built interest in radio technque. Check out the interesting memories of Radio Luxembourg here!
   http://www.eastend-memories.org/radio/luxembourg3.htm
Let's give this forum a chance for a new radio Two - Oh - Eight!
Can we agree on the principle that, for the sake of order, entries regarding European FB MW stations will be posted in the MW Free Radio thread along with the American ones?
 At most, due to lack of interest, they will die a "natural death". :'(
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Offline ChrisSmolinski

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2022, 2117 UTC »
I've renamed this board to better reflect the types of stations logged here.

Can we agree on the principle that, for the sake of order, entries regarding European FB MW stations will be posted in the MW Free Radio thread along with the American ones?
 At most, due to lack of interest, they will die a "natural death". :'(

I've also considered creating a second board specifically for European MW pirates, so that we have two, with the other for North American MW pirates. 

The advantage to this is that it keeps logs of these two groups of pirates separate, as they are only rarely heard on the other side of the pond.

A possible disadvantage is both would be relatively low traffic boards, although we have several of those now on the HFU and does not not seem to be a major hardship  ;D
Thoughts?
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Offline Ray Lalleu

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2022, 2228 UTC »
I've just seen the new name (and subtitle) of this European forum.
So it's now clear that small SW pirate and/or private  stations are welcomed here, independently of their legal status or no status or unknown status.

But it is now written that this forum is for SW. So excluding all logs below 1800 kHz ? Mixing them with the (American) MW pirate makes no great sense. Well, I have to see if there is much in that forum...
To be continued,

Ray
D/E/F/G/It/Sp : Dutch/English/French/German/Italian/Spanish
+/- : about 0.02 offset, ++/-- 0.03/0.04 offset
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Offline ChrisSmolinski

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2022, 1207 UTC »
But it is now written that this forum is for SW. So excluding all logs below 1800 kHz ? Mixing them with the (American) MW pirate makes no great sense. Well, I have to see if there is much in that forum...
To be continued,

Ray

If it would be better / more consistent to log European MW pirates here, then that is fine with me.

In fact I just tweaked the title of this board to better reflect that.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 1208 UTC by ChrisSmolinski »
Chris Smolinski
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Offline Ray Lalleu

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2022, 0925 UTC »
My feelings are that the AM pirates should have a separate forum, as should HF pirate/small-scale licensed stations.

Perhaps the latter should be noted with a suffix to show they’re licensed, where known.
1. I understand you use 'AM' in the American popular way for 'MW' ?

2. Your 'where known' is wise. Often, we don't know for sure if a station is licensed or not. I can just add 'said' or 'believed' to be licensed in the comments about the station.

But there are more problems about that :
- a licensed station can go back to unlicenced frankly (not paying the fee, for example)
- a licensed station can be outside of limits (on an unlicensed frequency, for example)
- a licensed station can relay an unlicensed station (so what are the rules in Germany or in the Netherlands?)
- a station licensed or unlicensed in its own country can be relayed from a foreign country  through another station, licensed or unlicensed or 'off limits'.
- a licensed station has not to say so publicly
Maybe the grey zone has stranger places I'm not aware of, (that's why I pleaded for including all the private stations in this forum).

So, we can add in comments that a station or a relay is said or believed to be licensed, without giving more assurance about that.
D/E/F/G/It/Sp : Dutch/English/French/German/Italian/Spanish
+/- : about 0.02 offset, ++/-- 0.03/0.04 offset
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Offline europirate

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2022, 1035 UTC »
This list appears in another forum on HFU

This is a list of European private stations that are licensed and operate legally. I do also have a question though as well. Are these stations licensed to individuals? I know here in North America a individual cannot get a broadcasting license. It has to be a company or organization type thing. What about these European legal private stations? Is it the same for them or do individuals own these stations?



Is it worth linking to it from this forum or maintaining a similar list.
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Offline Shortwave_listener

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2022, 1445 UTC »
I agree that there should be a separate forum for European MW pirates. Also, here is the latest list of European private shortwave stations. I think we should keep the legal private stations and pirate stations together as they are. I do think though that there should be something in the thread title to distinguish between legal and pirate stations. An example of a title for a legal station’s thread could be something like this

Radio Jong Europa (L) 6175 AM 1540 UTC 23 Jun 2022

Since pirate stations make up the majority of logs, I think that the title format should be left the same for them. The (L) would just make distinguishing pirates and legal stations easier.
As for the legal status of stations, I think the list below should be used to determine which stations are legal. It is almost as accurate as possible and published monthly by email. I will continue to post the latest list as I receive them.

Latest copy of the Hartvig list
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 1548 UTC by Shortwave_listener »
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Offline Harmony

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2022, 1459 UTC »
Since the board is 'HF' Underground, its debatable whether MF stations should be included at all; However, my feelings on the forums is that the Euro pirates should have their (our) own forum. We are totally distinct from the low power licensed private stations that some countries allow.

I believe there are enough of them to have their own forum, or maybe a sub-forum under a broadcast station main forum.

Pirates should be separate though - our parlous legal state and the situation where many of us cannot or do not maintain regular schedules does, I believe, make us more sought-after for DXers. So it would be disadvantageous for readers to have to sort through a mixed legal and non-legal forum.

H.

Offline Ray Lalleu

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2022, 1551 UTC »
Since the board is 'HF' Underground, its debatable whether MF stations should be included at all; However, my feelings on the forums is that the Euro pirates should have their (our) own forum. We are totally distinct from the low power licensed private stations that some countries allow.

I believe there are enough of them to have their own forum, or maybe a sub-forum under a broadcast station main forum.

Pirates should be separate though - our parlous legal state and the situation where many of us cannot or do not maintain regular schedules does, I believe, make us more sought-after for DXers. So it would be disadvantageous for readers to have to sort through a mixed legal and non-legal forum.

H.
Don't agree with anything above.
D/E/F/G/It/Sp : Dutch/English/French/German/Italian/Spanish
+/- : about 0.02 offset, ++/-- 0.03/0.04 offset
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Offline Harmony

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2022, 1659 UTC »
As is your right Ray; however I don’t see why.

The forum is divided into many parts of the hobby, why merge two disparate types of stations together?

Both have entirely different circumstances, goals and business models - and therefore I vouchsafe, different attractions to our valued listeners.

Separate but both valued entities.

Viva la difference.

Offline Ray Lalleu

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2022, 1723 UTC »
Still not agreeing with any of your arguments.

You have been listed here a countless number of times,
and you will still be listed here with those awful more or less licensed stations, like it or not.

Wishing you success in getting more listeners

edit : not countless, 924 times since March 2018
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 1730 UTC by Ray Lalleu »
D/E/F/G/It/Sp : Dutch/English/French/German/Italian/Spanish
+/- : about 0.02 offset, ++/-- 0.03/0.04 offset
Balanced wire antennas, wire lines and ATU

Offline Harmony

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Re: About this forum
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2022, 1745 UTC »
I’m not sure I understand your point. What relevance is it how many times we’ve been listed?
The whole point of this forum is for listeners to report and/or identify what they’ve heard.
Anything that makes that more difficult is, surely, not a Good Thing.
Anyway, I’m sure Chris will make the correct decision.

 

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