We seek to understand and document all radio transmissions, legal and otherwise, as part of the radio listening hobby. We do not encourage any radio operations contrary to regulations. Always consult with the appropriate authorities if you have questions concerning what is permissible in your locale.

Author Topic: HF in the car?  (Read 16452 times)

Offline Kilokat7

  • Global Moderator
  • DX Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1450
  • West Michigan
    • View Profile
    • Kilokat7 DX
HF in the car?
« on: August 25, 2013, 1342 UTC »
Just curious if anyone has HF receive capabilities in their vehicles?  If so, what are you using for receiver and antenna?  What kind of results do you get, and what can be expected?  Is electrical noise an issue for you?
PLS QSL kilokat7(at)gmail.com
Location: Western Michigan
Perseus SDR / DKAZ loops
1980s pirate off-air archive
West Michigan DX

Offline skeezix

  • Global Moderator
  • Marconi Class DXer
  • *****
  • Posts: 5544
  • Minneapolis, MN
  • What does 'RNO stand for?
    • View Profile
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 2038 UTC »
I have a Sony CDX-GT570S[1] in my 2000 VW Passat. Pulled out the old Monsoon radio, got a harness and tried the factory active antenna.

On MW, there's a lot of noise, nothing on SW, and FM worked fine.

Put a 31" whip on an NMO mount on the trunk (the standard antenna length its made for) and MW, SW, and FM work great.

As far as overall performance:
On MW its pretty good. I'm satisfied with it. Not picking up any noticeable noise from the car.
On FM its fine. Same as on MW, no noise from the car.

On SW is another thing. When the car is parked, not running, and lights off, SW is fine from 4800-18150 (I haven't explored much below 4800). I listen to R Australia (9580), V of Korea (15180, 11710), V of Greece (15630. Radio doesn't get 9400-9500  >:(, so 9420 is out), R Romania (9700), R Serbia (9685), V of Croatia  (9925  :'( ), The Mighty KBC (9925), R National da Amazonia (11780),  Firedrakes on 13 MHz, Japan somewhere on 15 MHz, and other random stuff I find scattered around. I'd say its probably comparable or a bit better than a portable with a whip as far as sensitivity, but far better in audio quality. Wish it had AM sync...

When the car is running, there is ignition noise from ~11MHz through 17MHz. If the station is strong enough, its not a big deal.

When the headlights are on, can hear what sounds to be a whine from the computer system through most of the SW band. In places, it is strong enough to make a strong station unlistenable (e.g. 4840 in the evenings). Do not hear any of this on MW nor FM.

Going to try replacing the spark plugs with RFI-suppressed ones. That should help, I hope, but it won't do a thing for when some cars are next to me, as it'll pick up their ignition noise. Noticeable, but not very strong and all I have to do is get away from them.

I put this in a year ago using the factory antenna, and last winter finally got the second antenna hooked up. Even with the noise, I still love it and have fulfilled a dream I had since 1988 when I bought my Sony ICF-2010. Listening to the 2010 in the car was possible, but not elegant nor all that great. Listening to SW through the whole system is nothing short of fantastic.

As far as the GT570S itself goes- It does the job and it sounds good. The faceplate is gaudy, buttons & interface are a PITA, too few memories, and no direct entry. Its not a radio in which to scan the bands with, especially while driving. At some time, there may have been something better out there, but got this new off of eBay from Israel and now his supply dried up. Hard to find anything similar as of late, so while the interface sucks, yet sounds good, I'm fairly happy with it since there isn't much choice. And even a year ago when I found it, it was the only one I could find (he had 10, so I got one. Wish I would've picked up a spare).

My car is 13+ years old and still runs well. I've driven a few other new cars for a day (while mine is in the shop). The factory radio on a 2013 Passat or a Toureg is fantastic on MW, even with the little microscopic stub of an antenna. Touch screen, sensitive & selective. I was amazed. But no SW. And with the size of that radio vs my single DIN Sony, not sure what I would do with a new car. Hard to give up SW, even with a nice touchscreen & sensitive MW radio.  So I keep my car with SW & no car payments.  :)

I'm also a ham, so have various transceivers, but none of those have a nice bandwidth for SW listening other than the Yaesu FT-847, but that thing is not going in the car on a daily basis. Plus, with the factory VW radio, never had a way to hook it into the stereo system. With the Sony, it has an aux jack, so could use from an external radio, but then, what's the point? Then have to pack it all up & lock it in the truck when not by the car. And if I use an amateur transceiver, the bw will suck. Car stereo is a lot more convenient and sounds really nice.

If you're considering doing it, do it. Search high & low for receivers now, as it may take a while (if you want a car stereo with SW). As with anything with a limited antenna, it won't be a hardcore DX machine like Chris' 635' loop+SDR, but it certainly will be well worth the effort.

While there are still broadcasters on SW...




[1] Interestingly, Sony seems to have scrubbed the SW portions of the radio from their sites. No idea why, but the box says GT570S and it certainly has SW.

[2] Poking around a bit more...
Kenwood KDC-MP149
That model is for sale online in Australia.

Seems as though this may have SW:
Pioneer DEH-4450BT
Found some on eBay, but no mention of SW with that part number.


« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 2132 UTC by skeezix »
Minneapolis, MN

Offline redhat

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1585
  • USA
  • Music is my drug.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 2144 UTC »
You have to be careful with foreign car rx's.  Some won't allow 10 KHz AM channel spacing (Both of the one you listed above do) and suffer limited frequency range.  The Pioneer stops at 1640KHz, no Celeste for you!  Also its becoming harder and harder to find receivers that get 1710KHz.  Also all foreign AM sections are built for 4.5 KHz audio without NRSC, so domestic stations will sound overly bright and spitty.

If I had the money, I'd probably get the Kenwood.


...After saying that, I took another look at the specs.  "Useful sensitivity" for the Kenwood is 40uV vs. 28uV on the Pioneer.  That's a pretty substantial difference, but its hard to know what exactly useful is.  Everything used to be referenced to 12dB SINAD.

Food for thought.

+-RH
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 0317 UTC by redhat »
Somewhere under the stars...
Airspy HF+, MLA-30/Mini-whip/Chi-Town Loop
Please send QSL's and reception reports to xfmshortwave [at] proton [d0t] me

Offline Sealord

  • Global Moderator
  • DX Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2338
  • North East Florida
    • View Profile
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 2159 UTC »
I had a Sony XR-CA620X in my truck that I used off & on that was pretty good.  I didn't even bother with trying to minimize the noise from my toyota, but on the strong stations it had good reception.  I used to listen to RHC, VOG, RCI, etc.. with a great signal and also Alistair Cooke's  'Letter From America' on the BBC while driving into work in the mornings.  Antenna was using the stock whip.

Used to live near St. Augustine and would run the coastal highway for work and could hear an AM station from the Bahamas a couple of times around 1530khz IIRC driving home in the evenings.

I stopped listening to SW on it once I got my XM setup and the radio just died 2 weeks ago after 10yrs. of service.  Got mine from Jacky's which was an online Saudi Arabian outfit, but they've been gone for some time.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 2214 UTC by Sealord »
Indoors: WR-G33DDC & TT RX-340_DX Eng. 4-Square Array / Outdoors: Belka-DX_Whip / Poolside: SMC HF-150_MMD-40 (D.O.G.) / Off Air/Studio Recordings

Offline Bill F

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 237
    • View Profile
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 0212 UTC »
I had a Sony XR-CA620X also.  I took it out when I got a another car back in 2007.  It was a decent radio.  the only thing it didn't have was SSB.  You could use a 40 meter whip but you'll probably need a heavy duty mount so it doesn't blow off of the car.

 Someone I know drove around with a Realistic DX-390 using batteries and I think a 2 meter mag mount antenna.  I guess the best thing to do is put one in the car and see what you can hear.   You might be surprised. 
Receiver: SDRPlay RSP-1
Antenna:  70 foot long wire

Offline Pigmeat

  • Marconi Class DXer
  • ********
  • Posts: 6684
    • View Profile
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 0331 UTC »
Capt. Ganja once told me he used a portable receiver and some sort of mag mount antenna when he delivered pizzas to listen to pirates, Bill. He said it did a pretty good job.

Offline Dr. Strangelove

  • DXing Phenomena
  • *******
  • Posts: 3361
  • Northwest Alabama
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 0350 UTC »
I also got a Sony CDX-GT570S radio from the guy in Israel off ebay and its works great.  I put it in my 1987 Jaguar XJ6.  The only noise problems I've had with it was engine noise, turned out the hood  somehow wasn't grounded to the body, simple ground wire from the hood to the body of the car fixed that and the aux cooling fan motor when it ran produced alot of rf noise. Turned out it was worn out and replacing it fixed that.  I've got another car (Toyota Solara) the radio just died in and am looking for another SW radio to put in it.  I wish I had bought a couple of those Sonys when they were available.  I was looking at the Kenwood and Pioneer mentioned above but I haven't found the specs on the sw tuning ranges.  Any ideas?    Just checked my manual on my Sony and the sensitivty is 40uV for whatever that means. Its recieves very well with the stock telescoping power antenna on the Jag. Kinda leaning towards the Kenwood for the Toyota but thinking about how the rear window antenna will work on SW, it worked great on MW and FM before the stock JBL radio died.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 0639 UTC by Dr. Strangelove »
R-390a, WJ-8718, Rohde & Schwarz EK07 and EK56, Siemens E311, 51-J4, R8, IC-7610. All reports are from my radios and antennas at my QTH.  Please QSL to morrisgarage770@msn.com   Northwest AL EM64

Offline redhat

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1585
  • USA
  • Music is my drug.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 0441 UTC »
Quote
I was looking at the Kenwood and Pioneer mentioned above but I haven't found the specs on the sw tuning ranges.  Any ideas?

The Kenwood;  http://manual.kenwood.com/files/4edc696db7bdc.pdf

The Pioneer; http://docs.pioneer.eu/Manuals/DEH_4450BT_DEH_4450BT_manual/GetPDF.ashx

+-RH
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 1817 UTC by redhat »
Somewhere under the stars...
Airspy HF+, MLA-30/Mini-whip/Chi-Town Loop
Please send QSL's and reception reports to xfmshortwave [at] proton [d0t] me

Offline Dr. Strangelove

  • DXing Phenomena
  • *******
  • Posts: 3361
  • Northwest Alabama
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2013, 1913 UTC »
I ordered the Kenwood.  $89.99 with free shipping off ebay.  Hopefully it will make the trip in one piece! 
R-390a, WJ-8718, Rohde & Schwarz EK07 and EK56, Siemens E311, 51-J4, R8, IC-7610. All reports are from my radios and antennas at my QTH.  Please QSL to morrisgarage770@msn.com   Northwest AL EM64

Offline Kilokat7

  • Global Moderator
  • DX Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1450
  • West Michigan
    • View Profile
    • Kilokat7 DX
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 0103 UTC »
Great replies, this gives me some stuff to think about.  Thanks all
PLS QSL kilokat7(at)gmail.com
Location: Western Michigan
Perseus SDR / DKAZ loops
1980s pirate off-air archive
West Michigan DX

Offline redhat

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1585
  • USA
  • Music is my drug.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2013, 0714 UTC »
To the good doctor;  let us know how it turns out.  After looking at the limited frequency range on SW for the pioneer, it does indeed look like of the two the kenwood is the way to go.

...Now, where did I put my piggy bank.

+-RH
Somewhere under the stars...
Airspy HF+, MLA-30/Mini-whip/Chi-Town Loop
Please send QSL's and reception reports to xfmshortwave [at] proton [d0t] me

Offline Dr. Strangelove

  • DXing Phenomena
  • *******
  • Posts: 3361
  • Northwest Alabama
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2013, 0737 UTC »
Yes I will let you know how things turn out.  Fingers crossed!
R-390a, WJ-8718, Rohde & Schwarz EK07 and EK56, Siemens E311, 51-J4, R8, IC-7610. All reports are from my radios and antennas at my QTH.  Please QSL to morrisgarage770@msn.com   Northwest AL EM64

Offline Token

  • Global Moderator
  • DX Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2118
    • View Profile
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2013, 1756 UTC »
In both the SUVs that regularly get driven off-road I have HF, 160 meters to at least 70 cm, one has HF to 23 cm.  One has a Kenwood TS-480SAT for HF, and a Tarheel 300A.  The other has a Kenwood TS-2000X and again a Tarheel 300A.  Both of those setups work pretty well and I regularly monitor pirates and utilities from the vehicles.

In the wife’s SUV (never goes off-road ;) ) in addition to VHF/UHF I have HF RX also, in the form of an Icom R2500.  The HF antenna used is a Hamstick.  Normally the 40 meter Hamstick is the one that is on it, but sometimes one of the others.  This works, and is OK for casual listening, but really not optimal.

My Miata has an Icom R1500 to go along with the Yaesu FT-8900R, but the antenna used by the R1500 is a 42” whip, and leaves a lot to be desired on HF.  It does work, but rather like a portable.

T!
T!
Mojave Desert, California USA

Offline redhat

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1585
  • USA
  • Music is my drug.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2013, 0353 UTC »
I checked all the Australian vendors I could find, none of them will ship out of the country.  Anyone have a plan B?

+-RH
Somewhere under the stars...
Airspy HF+, MLA-30/Mini-whip/Chi-Town Loop
Please send QSL's and reception reports to xfmshortwave [at] proton [d0t] me

Offline redhat

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1585
  • USA
  • Music is my drug.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: HF in the car?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2013, 2012 UTC »
A little birdie brought a kenwood to the car recently, I'll let you know how it turns out.

+-RH
Somewhere under the stars...
Airspy HF+, MLA-30/Mini-whip/Chi-Town Loop
Please send QSL's and reception reports to xfmshortwave [at] proton [d0t] me