We seek to understand and document all radio transmissions, legal and otherwise, as part of the radio listening hobby. We do not encourage any radio operations contrary to regulations. Always consult with the appropriate authorities if you have questions concerning what is permissible in your locale.

Author Topic: All Digital AM broadcast  (Read 2901 times)


Offline Dude111

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
    • View Profile
All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2019, 1040 UTC »
I really hope they dont..... That would force everyone to listen to raw digital broadcasts and to me they dont sound good at all!!!!!!!!

Siriius/XM radio to me sounds aweful in a car.. Its tinny and sterile sounding.......

Analogue is much better and always has been!!! (Digital being transmitted via analogue means isnt quite as bad)

Offline redhat

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1587
  • USA
  • Music is my drug.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2019, 1140 UTC »
At one time there were 3 or so IBOC AM stations on the air here.  They all have reverted to analog, probably when their exciters died for the third time and were no longer contractually obligated to keep them running.  If this is any indication of the industries' feelings on the matter, I wouldn't worry.

+-RH
Somewhere under the stars...
Airspy HF+, MLA-30/Mini-whip/Chi-Town Loop
Please send QSL's and reception reports to xfmshortwave [at] proton [d0t] me

Offline pinto vortando

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2019, 1453 UTC »
Digital on the AM band is nothing but legalized jamming.
Das Radiobunker somewhere in Michigan

Offline BoomboxDX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
    • View Profile
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2019, 1109 UTC »
Let 'em do it if they want. I don't think there will be an AM band in the US without analog. Some stations here and there who believe they have the HD audience would go all-HD.

And like Redhat mentions, a lot of stations switched off their HD / IBOC. Obviously they didn't see the audience for it.

Both local stations that had HD on AM dumped it two years or so ago. It's too bad, in a way, because they sounded good on HD, but they made a business decision apparently, and radio stations will make business decisions because they are primarily a business...

Which means if they don't think that HD will increase their audience, or serve their audience, they won't go there.
An AM radio Boombox DXer.
+ GE SRIII, PR-D5 & TRF on MW.
The usual Realistic culprits on SW (and a Panasonic).

Offline pinto vortando

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2019, 1626 UTC »
The AM broadcast band by its nature is useful for long range reception at night.  To allow digital sidebands
will cause interference to adjacent channels.  In many cases, a local digital station would wipe out an
adjacent distant station you desire to hear.  In other words, there is more at stake here than trying
to enhance local reception.  Allowing digital transmission would trash the unique ability of the AM band
to be useful for long distance reception.  This has more implication beyond the SWL hobby.  For example,
being able to hear sports events in another city, or getting news coverage of a big event right from the local
source.

A better way to revitalize the AM band would be for stations to broadcast creative programming instead of the
mass produced stuff fed us by the media syndicates. 

A good example of what can be done with creative programming would be CFZM AM 740 Toronto. 
The programs on "Zoomer Radio"are aimed at an older audience, but you get the idea of what can
be done with some imaginative effort.
Das Radiobunker somewhere in Michigan

Offline redhat

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1587
  • USA
  • Music is my drug.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2019, 1904 UTC »
The AM broadcast band by its nature is useful for long range reception at night.  To allow digital sidebands
will cause interference to adjacent channels.  In many cases, a local digital station would wipe out an
adjacent distant station you desire to hear.  In other words, there is more at stake here than trying
to enhance local reception.  Allowing digital transmission would trash the unique ability of the AM band
to be useful for long distance reception.  This has more implication beyond the SWL hobby.  For example,
being able to hear sports events in another city, or getting news coverage of a big event right from the local
source.

A better way to revitalize the AM band would be for stations to broadcast creative programming instead of the
mass produced stuff fed us by the media syndicates. 

A good example of what can be done with creative programming would be CFZM AM 740 Toronto. 
The programs on "Zoomer Radio"are aimed at an older audience, but you get the idea of what can
be done with some imaginative effort.

The reality is however, that the industry no longer values long distance reception.  I sat in on a talk or two about 'AM revitilization'  and the general take away was that the noise and interference problems are too far gone, and large stations are just chasing local money.  DX'ing to them is a distant (no pun intended) memory.  In light of the recent developments with FM translators and such, many have already thrown in the towel.

There are stations that still solicit and promote their coverage over large swaths of the country.  Many of these stations are out in flyover country and support a largely rural and agricultural audience.  The folks there still rely on these stations for information, but there too things are changing.  I drive long distances for work and fun throughout the year and one of the things I always do is surf the AM band in the car.  It must have been a lot more fun 20-30 years ago when there was some resemblance to variety in programming.  Most of what you get now is the same talking heads from coast to coast....and ethnic music.

+-RH
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 1909 UTC by redhat »
Somewhere under the stars...
Airspy HF+, MLA-30/Mini-whip/Chi-Town Loop
Please send QSL's and reception reports to xfmshortwave [at] proton [d0t] me

Offline Josh

  • DXing Phenomena
  • *******
  • Posts: 4322
    • View Profile
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2019, 2234 UTC »
Yep, the bottom line takes priority over the novelty of being heard in nibi nibi island as no one on nibi nibi buys anything from a local advertiser in Ft Dodge Iowa (540 KWMT lol). Sure the owners and engineer are smiling at the qsl but it doesn't make them any money..... and the owner with the degree in business rather than radio engineering will angrily wonder why a guy on nibi nibi island 6300 miles away can hear his sta but not someone 300 miles away.

I imagine the big city AM locals still make decent cash as they pretty much have the workday folks captivated, save for the npr loons. Like 880 in NYC, 1110 in Omaha, 1040 in Des Moines, etc stas everyone listens to to find out what places are closed for snow and etc.

And as for nite dx, a lot of the lesser stations are obligated to reduce power greatly as well as alter their rad pattern to protect someone else's pecuniary interest, shame of it all.
We do not encourage any radio operations contrary to regulations.

Offline JimIO

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
  • QTH I.O. MA
    • View Profile
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2019, 0103 UTC »
Let PG&E run all the AM stations...    8)

~

Offline redhat

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1587
  • USA
  • Music is my drug.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2019, 0334 UTC »
Let PG&E run all the AM stations...    8)

~

What does that have to do with digital AM?

+-RH
Somewhere under the stars...
Airspy HF+, MLA-30/Mini-whip/Chi-Town Loop
Please send QSL's and reception reports to xfmshortwave [at] proton [d0t] me

Offline JimIO

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
  • QTH I.O. MA
    • View Profile
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2019, 0441 UTC »
"What does that have to do with digital AM?

+-RH"

If it happens stations that go all digital will increase their rates and make a short term profit. When new listeners don't come it will fall apart. I heard PG&E has a fleet of helicopters. They need guys with chainsaws and wood chippers.

~
« Last Edit: November 03, 2019, 0444 UTC by JimIO »

Offline ThaDood

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1226
  • Likely, not where you are.
    • View Profile
    • Extreme Part #15!
    • Email
Re: All Digital AM broadcast? Kill it???
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2019, 1821 UTC »
From Radio Survivor,     http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2019/11/07/can-we-save-am-radio-by-killing-it-considering-all-digital-am-radio/

Paul does bring up some good points here. My $0.02 worth??? If the AM BC band were to go all digital, who would loose? US!!!!!!!! TV going all digital outlawed Part #15 analog television. Ya think that the same thing wouldn't happen to Part #15 AM'ers and AM radio DX'ing enthusiasts? As far as, "The end to AM broadcasting, if it went to all digital."? Hmm, maybe... Look at TV's 8VSB, which is still a type of AM, when you really think about it, Vestigial Side Band, a type of AM, but multiplexed octagonally. Doesn't iBiquity's HD Radio kind of do that too, if I understand the tech of it. (I really should go back and research that more again. Any ENG's wanna' ring in here?) Yeah... On an analog AM radio, it going to sound like hissy white noise to the MAX. One other thing that I see here, would there be a market for HD receivers to analog converter boxes, like we've seen, and that you can still get, in television? I doubt it, since it would have to be super cheap.
Oh yeah... Then there's the marketing, and lobbying, for all digital medium wave. I'm still bitter about how AM Stereo was handled, and the feds and broadcasting industry learned nothing from it. AM Stereo was too little, too late. It was allowed to happen a decade too late in 1982, instead of 1972, or earlier. And, the feds to let the market decide just made the format wars a monopoly game where about everyone lost. Yes, even Motorola, Sony, and Toshiba. So, I kind of agree, that if an all digital format is to be implemented, the feds need to put their foot down this time, but $$$$$$$$ walks. And, somehow I'd hate to see implemented a technology that maybe inferior to someone else's that's out there, like maybe DRM. So, tough call... Is this a dead-horse beaten subject at this point? Maybe, but not if we keep it alive.
I was asked, yet another weird question, of how I would like to be buried, when I finally bite the big one. The answer was actually pretty easy. Face-down, like a certain historical figure in the late 1980's, (I will not mention who, but some of you will get it, and that's enough.) Why??? It would be a burial that will satisfy everyone: (1) My enemies will say that it will show me where to go. (2) On the same point, I can have my enemies kiss my butt. (3) It will temporarily give someone a place to park a bicycle. See??? A WIN / WIN for everyone.

Offline redhat

  • DX Legend
  • ******
  • Posts: 1587
  • USA
  • Music is my drug.
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2019, 1934 UTC »
In an era where the translator is more valuable than the host AM running it, I still doubt much will change.  Licensees would rather turn in there AM licenses than shell out 30-100K to go digital.  And frankly in a selfish sense, I'm OK with that.  its time we cut the dead wood and clear the band of signals that are no longer financially viable.  If you want to take over it as a full time hobby and make it something of value to the community around you, all the better...otherwise turn it off.

+-RH
Somewhere under the stars...
Airspy HF+, MLA-30/Mini-whip/Chi-Town Loop
Please send QSL's and reception reports to xfmshortwave [at] proton [d0t] me

Offline ChrisSmolinski

  • Administrator
  • Marconi Class DXer
  • *****
  • Posts: 31239
  • Westminster, MD USA
    • View Profile
    • Black Cat Systems
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2019, 2003 UTC »
Agreed, the best thing that could happen to AM is for half the stations to go dark. Maybe more. Maybe a lot more.
Chris Smolinski
Westminster, MD
eQSLs appreciated! csmolinski@blackcatsystems.com
netSDR / AFE822x / AirSpy HF+ / KiwiSDR / 900 ft Horz skyloop / 500 ft NE beverage / 250 ft V Beam / 58 ft T2FD / 120 ft T2FD / 400 ft south beverage / 43m, 20m, 10m  dipoles / Crossed Parallel Loop / Discone in a tree

Offline pinto vortando

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: All Digital AM broadcast
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2019, 2144 UTC »
Agreed, the best thing that could happen to AM is for half the stations to go dark. Maybe more. Maybe a lot more.

^^^this...  along with their FM translators
Das Radiobunker somewhere in Michigan