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Author Topic: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012  (Read 4121 times)

Offline glimmer twin

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V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« on: December 31, 2012, 1005 UTC »
this is the first time I've heard the new & improved cuban #'s ...pretty damn annoying if you ask me.
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Offline sat_dxer

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Re: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2012, 1430 UTC »
Noted in passing an open carrier until 0537z with YL/SS 5FG block then starting into assorted dial up like tones mixing w/5FG until abrupt end at 0555z, 31 Dec 2012.




« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 1942 UTC by sat_dxer »
Most times & frequencies posted are only an approximation.
Wishing the 1980's PopComm was still around.

Offline Token

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Re: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 1613 UTC »
This new version is not called V02a, but rather carries the designation HM01.  When you hear voice numbers only for the duration of the transmission (listen longer than 5 minutes to determine this) it is V02 (normally the "A" varient), when you hear voice and digital it is HM01, and when you hear digital only it is SK01.

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T!
Mojave Desert, California USA

Offline glimmer twin

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Re: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2012, 1647 UTC »
Where do these new designations come from? They don't seem to follow the enigma classification system. kind of confusing.
KCMO  Icom R 75 , SDR-IQ, Grundig Satellit 750 ,Tecsun PL 880, Tecsun PL660 , Tecsun PL380 & PL360  10 meter random wire  w/ RF systems MLB    Alpha Delta SWL DX sloper  
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Offline Token

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Re: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2013, 0045 UTC »
Enigma 2000 assigned the HM01, just like it assigned the SK01.  HM01 stands for "Hybrid Mode 01", meaning mixed voice and digital.

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T!
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Offline glimmer twin

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Re: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2013, 0627 UTC »
OK thanks Token, I had seen HM01 mentioned & had no idea what it was. It seems odd to use a digi mode for numbers stations, I always thought the idea was to be sort of unobtrusive ya know... am signals not requiring any special eqpt. Digi sigs bring a computer into the equation ( I guess), or do they use a decoder of some type? Any analysis of the digital mode been done? 
KCMO  Icom R 75 , SDR-IQ, Grundig Satellit 750 ,Tecsun PL 880, Tecsun PL660 , Tecsun PL380 & PL360  10 meter random wire  w/ RF systems MLB    Alpha Delta SWL DX sloper  
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Offline Token

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Re: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2013, 1518 UTC »
The majority of the “new” numbers stations are not AM, most are USB, some are LSB.  Some are USB with carrier but many are fully suppressed carrier.  The power levels of many would suggest they are not using repurposed BC transmitters, but rather possibly military facilities.  Possibly since digital readout portables with SSB are so easy to have today this has allowed the use of the more efficient mode.

Several numbers stations, but still small a minority, include digital data.  With things like laptops and smart phones being so common, particularly in developed nations, these would not be “indicators” or unusual to have, and would not draw attention to the user.  They would probably draw less attention to the user than a shortwave radio would in some cases.

SK01 was the first digital numbers station that Enigma 2000 recognized as part of a numbers station and assigned an identifier to.  It uses RDFT, a ham digital mode, and can be demodulated using a shareware program (but still needs to be decrypted after demodulation).  HM01 is the first “hybrid” (using both voice and digital) numbers station to be designated.

Of course, the Cuban numbers stations still use SW BC transmitters and AM modulation, even for the digital signals they send.  They appear to be mixture of “old” and “new”.

From here on down laced heavily with my opinion, but I believe most of it is supportable opinion.

The thought of numbers stations being AM and using high powered repurposed broadcast transmitters is “old school” and less frequent now than it once was.  Portables 30 or 40 years ago had poor frequency readout and most did not have a detector for SSB and relatively few had even a BFO for CW/SSB.  This was probably a large driver behind most old style numbers stations being AM and using a recognizable interval signal (like many BC stations did/do) or very long repeating headers.  The interval signal that came up before the message allowed the user to find the frequency before anything of importance was sent.

Today I see people trying to find “meaning”, maybe even data, in the lead-in music, but those people probably never used something like a Zenith Transoceanic or Hallicrafters TW1000 to listen, they have no idea how important that lead-in or interval signal was to determining you were on the right frequency before the program started.

Fewer numbers stations today have interval or lead-in music.  More of them just pop up on frequency at XXXX time, right into a message.

There are other digital numbers stations out there besides SK01 or HM01, but they have never been given designators by Enigma 2000 and likely will not be given designators.  I do not speak for E2K and do not pretend to have knowledge of how they decide to assign designators, the following is just observation.

As an example, the Chinese voice numbers station V26 has a Morse Code sister station called M97, and also an undesignated digital sister station.  The sequence is almost always digital first, CW second, voice third, in variable length transmissions of each.  Of mild interest is the fact that in this case the digital is normally sent in LSB, the CW is in honest CW (not MCW), and the voice is sent in USB.  The digital signal was identified as part of the normal sequence before the CW station received the designator M97.  The problem is the digital signal uses a format called “Chinese 4+4 modem”, and this format is used by many non-numbers transmissions.  To assign an E2K ID to this modem would result in reports of “numbers” stations all over the place, the vast majority of which are not likely to be numbers type transmissions at all.

Similarly, V22 voice transmissions were replaced a few years ago by a digital mode, but little data was ever compiled on the specifics of this digital mode, because it was similar to other digital signals.

Last year, when V16 made a several month reappearance after several years of not being reported, it went to a digital mode after a few weeks of voice activity.  Despite the fact that the digital signal unmistakably used the same times and frequencies as the former voice transmissions no E2K designator was assigned.  The digital mode was determined to be similar to a 4FSK 200 bd mode used by Chinese Air Defense, and again assigning a designator would probably result in many false reports of numbers activity.  This station switched from AM to USB during this period of operation, it started as AM with the voice transmissions for several weeks, stayed with AM after the switch to digital for about a month, switched to USB from then on, and when it ended operations it went back to voice for the last two weeks, but again stayed USB for that time period.

It is quite possible that a lot of the numbers stations that have disappeared over the years have gone to a digital format, it is almost certain we as hobbyist will never be able to confirm this activity.

T!
T!
Mojave Desert, California USA

Offline sat_dxer

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Re: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2013, 1308 UTC »
In passing an open carrier until 0510z with YL/SS 5FG block then starting into assorted dial up like tones mixing w/5FG until 0530 then 5FG block again until 0533z then mixing once more, abrupt end at 0556z, 2 Jan 2013.





« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 1928 UTC by sat_dxer »
Most times & frequencies posted are only an approximation.
Wishing the 1980's PopComm was still around.

Offline glimmer twin

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Re: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2013, 1555 UTC »
thanks alot Token, I'm not up to date at all on numbers stations & your reply was very helpful. I had never considered the cell phone as modem aspect of digital numbers transmissions. It still seems like the phone/laptop would possibly betray a discovered agent by having a record of its use for this purpose. But what do I know? I still have a late 90's mindset as far as numbers stations are concerned. It's interesting that I had been up late reading Simon Masons book (again) when I decided to see if there were any #'s broadcasts on . I remember hearing new star around that time (10:00z) many years ago. It took me less than a minute to find HM01. By the way, I caught them in progress, do they still use the "attencion"? 
KCMO  Icom R 75 , SDR-IQ, Grundig Satellit 750 ,Tecsun PL 880, Tecsun PL660 , Tecsun PL380 & PL360  10 meter random wire  w/ RF systems MLB    Alpha Delta SWL DX sloper  
qsl   keithglimmer810@gmail.com

gentlemen,you can not fight in here, this is the war room

Offline Token

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Re: V2a 5855 10:00z 12/31/2012
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 1719 UTC »
thanks alot Token, I'm not up to date at all on numbers stations & your reply was very helpful. I had never considered the cell phone as modem aspect of digital numbers transmissions. It still seems like the phone/laptop would possibly betray a discovered agent by having a record of its use for this purpose.

I am sure the possibility of electronic data being used as ammunition/evidence against an agent is there, however it is probably no more incriminating than possessing a one time pad or visiting a dead drop to pick up an OTP replacement/update.

If a person is already to the point of being interrogated/looked at closely then they are probably hosed, regardless of what system they use.

It's interesting that I had been up late reading Simon Masons book (again) when I decided to see if there were any #'s broadcasts on . I remember hearing new star around that time (10:00z) many years ago. It took me less than a minute to find HM01. By the way, I caught them in progress, do they still use the "attencion"? 

New Star Broadcasting, Enigma V13, is still active but I do not think they currently have a 1000z time slot.  I know they have an 0700z and 0800z slot (both in the 7 MHz range, not sure of exact freqs) and I think they have a 1200z and 1300z slot.

As for the HM01 and use of “attencion”, I do not believe they do use that term, or the “final” at the end.   As I said I do not follow the Cuban stations closely, but the couple of HM01’s I have caught from the start appeared to go right into numbers.  V02a does still use “attencion” and “final”.

T!
T!
Mojave Desert, California USA

 

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