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Author Topic: NCP driver sucks  (Read 7577 times)

Offline Charlie_Dont_Surf

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Re: NCP driver sucks
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2023, 0047 UTC »
Yes, the NCP81074 does indeed suck for our purposes. I'm not planning to use it ever again.

It is simply not suitable for use at >6 MHz on anything with a Qg >~8 nC; you will blow the NCP81074. The reasons are:
1) The NCP81074 runs a high supply current at these frequencies, which dramatically increases its power dissipation.
2) It does not have an exposed paddle (called an "EPAD" in industry lingo) under its "belly" to allow you solder it to the PCB and get the heat out, which is absolutely necessary. (Most heat will come out of the belly since that is where the silicon die is attached to the package leadframe. Adding a heatsink to the top is not going to help much.)

You can get it to work and stay alive at lower Vdd (< 9 V) depending upon the transistor but then you can't drive many LDMOS, GaN and especially SiC transistors) to full on (lowest Rds_on), because the Qg needed to get the gate up to ~12 V far exceeds what the driver can deliver and not burn up. The demands upon the gate driver to source current (and thus dissipate heat) are significantly higher at 12 V than 6 V for example. Then when modulation of the final FET is added to the mix, the current demands at the gate increase again too. The NCP81074 can drive 4-6 A but it can't dissipate the heat that this causes when trying to do this at 6+ MHz, 50% duty cycle, Vdd = 12 V.

Keep in mind that the NCP is not characterized to work beyond 2 MHz. Obviously you can try it - we all do this - but understand that you may suffer unpredictable performance. Every time I have blown one of these up and soldered a new one down, I get a somewhat different supply current than the previous during operation. This tells me everything I need to know. You don't know what you are going to get the next time and the next time, etc, because you are working in conditions that are marginal and unintended for the chip. You likely won't see this at < 2 MHz because that is where it is spec'ed and intended to operate.

Instead, I have been using the Renesas ISL89163 dual driver or the TI UCC27614. Both have EPADs, can drive 6+ A and are plenty fast. (The ISL89163 can be paralleled for ~12A, the UCC27614 can do 10 A.) I haven't explored the TI chip much but I had the ISL89163 running at 18 MHz on a 28 nC gate Transphorm Cascode FET the other day and it looked like I still had extra pulse width to spare, i.e., the edges weren't so rounded that the pulse was horribly distorted. No self-destruction so far. 8) The ISL89163 has roughly half the supply current of the NCP81074 at the same frequency. Of course, these aren't spec'ed to operate at 6-7 MHz either, but so far I have not seen the same limitations as the NCP81074.

TI does make a FET driver that is intended to be used up to 50 MHz for LIDAR (LMG1025-Q1) but it can't go above 5 V.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 0203 UTC by Charlie_Dont_Surf »
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Offline Stretchyman

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Re: NCP driver sucks
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2023, 1934 UTC »
Used them to 15MHz without issue.

Driving 6nC GaN @6V.

Str.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2023, 1953 UTC by Stretchyman »
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Offline Charlie_Dont_Surf

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Re: NCP driver sucks
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2023, 0612 UTC »
Used them to 15MHz without issue.

Driving 6nC GaN @6V.

Str.

Let us be clear about the situation we are discussing.

The GaN Systems transistors that seem to be your transistor of choice these days appear to be quite nice based upon review of the datasheet and I'm sure they work well in reality. However, the drive requirements are somewhat light compared to the other 99.99% of transistors on the market. (I chose one of the three of their current production FETs with Qg ~6 nC to show below as an example but the exact model number matters little.)

I have no interest in continuing to use a FET driver with a somewhat niche application (and freaks out when presented with anything beyond the lightest of loads like a GaN Systems FET) when I can easily obtain other drivers that can drive your GaN Systems transistor to full Rds_on with ease and also handle most or all low, medium and high- power transistors that I or any other hobbyist would want to use.

I'm actually using the ISL89163 in a work application, providing what amounts to continuous synchronization pulse distribution/fan-out driver for hundreds of loads though many tens of meters of wiring harness and PCB traces - with all the parasitic L and C that this represents - and it doesn't argue with me, doesn't do weird shit and doesn't burn up. Case closed.




I don't STRETCH the truth.

"Every minute I spend in this room, my signal gets weaker.
Every minute Charlie squats in the bush, his signal gets stronger."

 

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