Vintage analogue/ tube receivers for BCL/SWL DXing?

[alpard]

Can vintage analogue / tube radios be used for SWL BCL Dxing?
Do you use one? What are they? How do they perform?

Any advantages or disadvantage for BCL/SWL DXing using one of those vintage analogue radios?

[chanito]

Absolutely. My first "serious" general coverage receiver was a Hammarlund HQ-180. I think it would still hold its own today for SWL.

[Ct Yankee]

I have a half dozen tube receivers that I use for swl dating 1950 or earlier.  Getting to know the radio is key, especially what it receives well and how the frequency aligns up to the dial.  I save my swl on the tubes for generally well received music (including am pirates).  One trick I'll do is tune in to my desired broadcast on PL 880 then match reception on the tube.  Music programs on the '37 Zenith Console make my home sound like a concert hall, live sports on shortwave tube radios are also a joy.  There are many, many music programs I have enjoyed on these sets.  I have found analog sets to drift off the frequency from time to time and may not receive as well as the Tecsun, but for a strong signal music program the sound coming from a wood cabinet tube radio can't be beat.

[skeezix]

I use a National NC-125 and -183D. They all work well. During the summer, the NC-125 is on the porch connected to a pair of Bonito Boni-Whip antennas with a Quantum Phaser. Aside from thunderstorms, it works pretty well. In the winter when I'm inside, I use a NC-183D that's connected to a Wellbrook ALA-1530S+ and that one also works very well.

They both compare favorably to a Sony ICF-2010, but the 2010 has a bit of an edge with somewhat better reception, but the main improvement is the sync detection.

The tube radios sound better. Identifying the frequency is a bit harder due to the analog dials that are rarely correct. On MW, its not as big of a deal, but on SW that's a different ball of wax and I usually get a modern digital radio to verify the freq.

[ThaDood]

Huh... For about a year, I also had a Hammarlund HQ-180. Very, very drifty for the 1st 30min, but was decent to use after that. (Ended up selling that to a friend whom really wanted more than I did.) Tell ya what though, If I was offered a Collins 390A, even if it needed work, I'd be hard pressed to turn one down. Unfortunately, the last tube rig bought was a Zenith Trans Oceanic that came all smashed up from the carrier. Got our money back, but still a pity to see that rig in about 20-some pieces. But anyway, a tube receiver is a different flavor to use, tune, and have fun with. Not to mention the audio quality from many of them. Very warm & pleasant.

[Stretchyman]

RA17?

Still incredibly good, however it's not American so may be rare in US.

[alpard]

Interesting to know that there are still many tube / vintage analogue receivers getting used for BCL SWL DXing.
I have a few old receivers that I am planning to set up for DXing, but wan't sure if they would be up for the job.

I guess the main problem could be finding out what the exact freq, it is tuned to, when heard stations for the first time in languages that I don't understand.
And to go to the exact freq. to tune up for a station that I want to listen to.

I suppose a digital readout receiver could be used side by side to confirm the freq. but then it is not 100% analogue receiver at work is it?

[skeezix]

I guess the main problem could be finding out what the exact freq, it is tuned to, when heard stations for the first time in languages that I don't understand.
And to go to the exact freq. to tune up for a station that I want to listen to.

I suppose a digital readout receiver could be used side by side to confirm the freq. but then it is not 100% analogue receiver at work is it?

Depends on how pure you want to be. You could calibrate your analog scale, but still hard to tell if you're on 15420 or 15425.

When I DX, I hear something on the radio and verify it on a receiver with a digital display if the freq is in question. And if I don't recognize the station, then I look up the SWBC sked online or with DX ToolBox, and may even search the Internet for the distant station online to listen to their live audio stream, if available.

You can also get a notion of roughly where you are if there are some known stations around the station of interest. If you hear WRMI on 9395 below the station of interest and Voice of Greece on 9420 is above it, then that narrows it down to 9400, 9405, 9410, 9415, assuming that station is on the regular 5 kHz channels. If they're on 9407.5... you're not going to see that on the analog display (unless highly calibrated and measuring with a micrometer). And you can use the other known stations on the band as frequency markers.

I've read of some mods where a digital frequency meter can be added to some of these radios to one of the stages. But then that is little different than using another radio with a digital display.

[alpard]

Great advice and info. Thanks.

I was trying to synchronise the freq. my XHDATA D-808 and TRIO 9R59D on the station which was on 6135 kHx on the D-808.
But after tuning for the signal on the 9R59D, it was reading around 6300 kHz when the freq. were synchronised.  It was very tricky.  I had to also tune the Band Spread dial to make the 9R59D to read about 6100 - 61500 kHz. It was still rough reading.

It would be great to be able to add digital freq. readout displays into these analogue tube radios.  I am not sure how practical it is to add them.  The only device I know is the freq readout module for AD9250, which wired into my TenTec VFO, and worked. But for the older tube rigs I am not sure if it is possible to wire the module which has plugin freq display board.

[BoomboxDX]

If by "analogue" you mean non-digital tuner readout, sure -- a lot of radios are still good, just as long as they are operating correctly. My Yaesu FRG-7 is still very good on SW and excellent on MW. You get within 5-10 khz using the analog dial readout, which is close enough for SWBC and even most ham listening. On MW it's easier because the MW band is fairly standard -- stations are either 9 or 10 khz apart and if you know the band in your area it's easier to figure out where you are.

Other analog radios of the pre-digital era can have good performance, and the readout still will leave a certain amount of guesswork, depending on the way the radio's tuning scheme is set up -- some of the Panasonic and Sony radios had crystal markers, which would help in tuning.

But the radio circuits themselves were probably as good as most DSP chips in SW portables today. With SW, a lot of it is the antenna, anyway.

Just my 2 cents.

[alpard]

Another thing is that, if you want to monitor a station on the freq. let say 4055 kHz Radio Verdad from Guatemala.
Then how would you be able to ensure your analogue tube radio is tuned for that freq. spot on?

This R. Verdad station sometimes bursts into good signal reception at nights, but during most days and times, it is just hash noise on the freq. hence I set my radio (TECSUN PL-680 or XHD D-808) for stand by on the freq. With analogue tube radio like my 9R59D? not sure if it is possible.

[skeezix]

Some receivers have a log scale, which is a linear scale (unlike the frequency scales). Can use that to get close and that's usually close enough for AM. But its not exact, as there may be some unaccounted for drift.

Then make note of where 4055 is on the log scale and tuning there in the future should be reasonably fine.

Some radios have a bandspread knob as well as the main tuning. Usually that's to do finer tuning in a band. That dial will have to be set to a certain point, so the main tuning knob will indicate consistently.

[Token]

Can vintage analogue / tube radios be used for SWL BCL Dxing?
Do you use one? What are they? How do they perform?

Any advantages or disadvantage for BCL/SWL DXing using one of those vintage analogue radios?

As you have seen from the responses so far, yes, absolutely, you can use a vintage or tube receiver (often called "boat anchors") for SWL BCL, or any other kind of listening, if that is what you want.  And some of them can perform extremely well.  If there is a major weakness it is that some older radios, especially if they were lower end sets back in the day, can be a little less sensitive above about 15 MHz.

Advantages, cool factor, sometimes sound quality, and really that is about it.  There is nothing an old radio can do that a quality modern radio cannot do.

Disadvantages, many.  They can be a bit less stable in frequency, they can take a long time to warm up, they can be hard to find parts for, they use way more power and can warm up a room (both a plus and a minus, depending on time of year), they often have less adjustable or more limited filtering, etc.

If it sounds like I am running down the vintage stuff...far from it, I love it.  But there are things to consider if you are going to use older stuff.

Here I use a variety of older gear.  The core radios in the shack are modern, various SDRs and traditional modern receivers, but I also keep a couple older radios in play all the time, and I rotate the old radios used in the shack.  Today I have a Hallicrafters SX-28, Hallicrafters SX-62A, and Hallicrafters SX-71 in the shack, and an LM-18 right next to them (more on that later), a couple of months ago it was a National NC-173, Hammarlund SP600, and Hallicrafters SX-42.

I guess the main problem could be finding out what the exact freq, it is tuned to, when heard stations for the first time in languages that I don't understand.
And to go to the exact freq. to tune up for a station that I want to listen to.

I suppose a digital readout receiver could be used side by side to confirm the freq. but then it is not 100% analogue receiver at work is it?

Another thing is that, if you want to monitor a station on the freq. let say 4055 kHz Radio Verdad from Guatemala.
Then how would you be able to ensure your analogue tube radio is tuned for that freq. spot on?

You could use a digital frequency meter on the LO or VFO of the old radio.  There are many kits to do so.  You are still using only the vintage radio, but you have added a digital readout to the vintage electronics.  Pretty easy and it can be non-invasive, if you are careful in the implementation you can return the radio to original configuration with no sign it ever had the readout associated.

Or you can do it how we did it back in the day.  Use an external, period correct, frequency meter or frequency standard.

An external fixed frequency standard can be turned on that will generate multiple signals / markers on known frequencies.  They generate multiple harmonics of a given frequency, for example in the 1 MHz setting they generate a tone / marker / signal every 1 MHz (1000 kHz), so they are at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5....et MHz.  In the 100 kHz setting they generate a signal every 100 kHz, so it would include things like 3500, 3600, 3700, 3800, 3900...8100...15400, kHz, etc.  And in the 10 kHz setting they generate markers every 10 kHz, 3500, 3510, 3520, 3530, 3540 kHz, etc.

In your Radio Verdad example on 4055 kHz: you click the switch on the freq standard to the 1 MHz position.  Even very coarsely defined frequency scales can normally allow you to get within one MHz.  You tune the radio to 4000 kHz by finding the tone / signal of the freq standard.  You then click switch to the 10 kHz position, tuning the radio up until you have counted 5 tones, you are now at 4050 kHz.  Tune to the next tone up, now at 4060 kHz.  Go back to half way between (by sound or by dial indicator) the 4050 and 4060 kHz tones and you at 4055 kHz.

It sounds bulky, but is really very easy.

My favorite way would be an external harmonic frequency meter, like the military surplus BC-221 series, or the LM-XX (multiple numbers in the XX) series like an LM-12 or LM-18.  These systems can tell you the frequency of any signal you want or preset the frequency of the radio with an analog radio to under 0.1 kHz resolution.

Quite a while ago I put together a basic web page talking about these frequency meters, and how to use them:
http://www.tokenradio.net/token/BC221.htm

From that page you will also see a link to some boatanchor dials, and why such a meter can be helpful.

T!

[East Troy Don]

I picked up a Yaesu FRG-7700 for $160 years ago and wouldn't part with it for 3x that amount, Wonderful  circa 1978-1982 SWL receiver.

[alpard]

Great info & advice. Thank you.
I will try my TRIO 9R59D for some AM DXing.