ICOM ICR-75 vs. TECSUN S-2000

[alpard]

Which one is better for DXing weak signal digging out from the noise etc?
Which one would you go for?

Do you own either one of these or both? How do you find them?

[ThaDood]

The Icom R75 will certainly dig it out better, especially if it's way in the noise levels. However, if that signal is of any decent signal strength, that Tecsun S-2000 will make it sound better, I kind of have it that way here. Hard to copy, noisy signals are for the Icom IC-745, (Pretty much the same RX as the famed IC-R71A.), but less noisy and somewhat stronger signals, especially if there's any fidelity to it, goes to the Kenwood TS-2000X. That said, the TS-2000X has indeed held its own on some weak signals as well. If having a decent QSO with a 5W 75M Pine Board Project AM op is any indication, when no one else seemed to hear them, yet I'm QSO'ing with them, then my Kenwood can't be too bad. (Yeah... I kindda' went off on a tangent, butt...) 

[alpard]

Is the R75's triple conversion makes significant difference in the reception quality / capability compared to S2000's double conversion?
Why is R75 better in digging out weak signals from the noise?  I suppose, if R75 has more functionalities such as notch filter and PBT / IF Tuning, it would be more advantageous for the adverse QRM conditions. (not sure if it does have more functions).  S2000 seems just bare minmum spec radio, but then it is cheaper radio.

But some forum posts that R75 having mysterious bug problems of sudden self dying, not powering on and muffled audio quality problems  sounds a bit off putting.

I used to think any transceiver lacks performance on GC coverage AM reception quality compared to dedicated GC receivers.
BTW, I heard that KENWOOD has gone off from Ham Radio manufacturing business. No more new  Kenwood radio any more. Is that true?

[ChrisSmolinski]

Icom radios, at least from that era, were notorious for poor audio. I don't have a R75, but I do have an R71A, bought circa 1990. The audio from the built in speaker is tolerable but not great. I have an external speaker connected, and it sounds much better. It's a quad conversion receiver, and the R71A was, for the time at least, considered a top performer for weak signal reception. The military bought pallets of them for SIGINT purposes.

Mine is down in the basement workshop now, so not used as much, mostly to listen to something in the background while doing work.

[alpard]

Yeah, the old ICOM R71E I used to have was very good.  I regret selling it, at the time I had no interest in BCL.
Mine had special MOD done professionally to MW for super sensitivity and selectivity for DXing, and it was copying US stations every night on MW.
It was a great DX machine.

But R75, I am not sure. I have not had it myself, but from the Youtube reviews and demos, the audio sounded like from the radio in a cardboard box come to think of it.  And some of them seems suffering from sudden death syndrome, they say?    And it is heck more expensive than the humble TECSUN.
Not sure if it is a good buy. But still, if it can hear the weak signals that the other radio cannot hear on the same antenna, it would be still worth buying I would think. But can it? I am not sure.

I might finally plunge into a SDR, and hook it up to my PC. Or just look for a used TECSUN S-2000 for cheap.

[ChrisSmolinski]

I might finally plunge into a SDR, and hook it up to my PC. Or just look for a used TECSUN S-2000 for cheap.

An AirSpyHF+ Discovery, or for a little more money an AFEDRI is going to give you a lot more bang for the buck than a TECSUN S-2000 or R75.

[pinto vortando]

That race is over before the horses even leave the barn.
They both will hear the weak signal but the 2000 will also hear all the other nearby signals...
the 75 not so much as it has twin PBT, DSP, and available narrow filters for both IFs.
The audio on the 2000 sounds nicer but for serious listening digging out weak sigs
headphones are the way to go.
The 2000 is what it isn't and it isn't a serious communications receiver.
Not trying to slam the 2000 here, it's a nice radio, it's just not a fair comparison.

[alpard]

I might finally plunge into a SDR, and hook it up to my PC. Or just look for a used TECSUN S-2000 for cheap.

An AirSpyHF+ Discovery, or for a little more money an AFEDRI is going to give you a lot more bang for the buck than a TECSUN S-2000 or R75.

How do you rate SDRPlay? They go for cheaper price here.

[alpard]

That race is over before the horses even leave the barn.
They both will hear the weak signal but the 2000 will also hear all the other nearby signals...
the 75 not so much as it has twin PBT, DSP, and available narrow filters for both IFs.
The audio on the 2000 sounds nicer but for serious listening digging out weak sigs
headphones are the way to go.
The 2000 is what it isn't and it isn't a serious communications receiver.
Not trying to slam the 2000 here, it's a nice radio, it's just not a fair comparison.

But would you agree that recently HF bands gone very quiet with less stations on the AIR?  Crowded band and adjacent signals are 1990s problem?
Now occasionally you get problems with very strong stations just next to the weak station you are listening, and they spread out 10 kHz both sides of their freq. This is serious problem, but then I thought no amount of PBT, Notch filter or filtering can help clearing this problem? Can R76 cope with this 100% with its twin PBT and narrow filters?  Is the R75 narrow filter continuous one? or stepping one?

A few days ago, I was listening to a weak station KBS World Radio on 15575, and then there came a very strong VOA with 500 kW power output on 15580, spreading their signal 10 - 15 kHz wide from 15580. It wiped out the KBS on 15575, and I was listening it on the KiWi SDR on the internet.  It had filtering on the menu, but it was not making any different at all.  The weak station couldn't be heard intelligibly.  I was wondering if any radio can cope with that problem.

Even if S2000 isn't meant to be serious comms receiver, it seems have no seriously critical reviews as such. It has been around for many years now, and the price seems going up all the time in Amazon and eBay, and people seem to want it badly?

[pinto vortando]

The S2000 is a nice radio, the Satellit 750 version had been discontinued for a couple of years but it has recently been returned.
So, it is popular but a bit pricey. 
The only way to compare the selectivity between the R75 and the S2000 would be to look at their laboratory derived dynamic range specs.
There have been reviews of these specs for the R75 but could find so such info for the S2000.
Although the SWBC bands are not as crowded as once upon a time, the ham bands can be very crowded at times, so it depends on what, when, and where
you listen that selectivity becomes an issue.

[alpard]

Here in Europe, even the ham bands are very quiet most of times.  It seems only active at nights on 40m and 80m for local rag chews and inter European contacts only.

I was only ham band operator, but because the bands has gone silent, I now turned to BCL.

Talking about pricey, ICR75 seems very expensive for what it is just because of the name? And ICOM is now no longer a Japanese company, sold to a Chinese company, so it is the name only but inside could be TECSUN or XHDATA :DD

I read ICR75 reviews on eham, and most are positive, but there are some very critical negative reviews on it.  It is the negative reviews one must pay attention I feel.  Most positive reviews seem under emotional hikes of how much they lashed out the cash for a little box just sits in front of them and muffles away when switched on

But the negative reviews on ICR75 seem common for, 1. The audio quality is bad. 2. PBT and filters don't work at all. 3. Has much noise generated by the receiver itself.

Yes, ICR75 is about 2-3 time more expensive radio than S2000, and was wondering if it is worth the money.

[ChrisSmolinski]

I might finally plunge into a SDR, and hook it up to my PC. Or just look for a used TECSUN S-2000 for cheap.

An AirSpyHF+ Discovery, or for a little more money an AFEDRI is going to give you a lot more bang for the buck than a TECSUN S-2000 or R75.

How do you rate SDRPlay? They go for cheaper price here.

It... depends. 

As you noted, the SDRPlay is less expensive. Also, it covers all of VHF and UHF. The AirSpyHF+/Discovery are HF and part of the VHF band (mostly FM and VHF-Hi). The AFEDRI is HF only, although there is another version that adds a VHF/UHF tuner (I do not have that, but I have the same basic functionality in the netSDR with its VHF/UHF downconverter).  I do find that the AirpyHF+/Discovery is more sensitive and the AGC action seems to be a bit less wonky than SDRPlay, although both are more annoying than the AFEDRI or netSDR, which are direct sampling SDRs.

If you don't live in a fairly low noise environment where you can take advantage of the better sensitivity/etc, then the SDRPlay is probably more than adequate.

[ChrisSmolinski]

Here in Europe, even the ham bands are very quiet most of times.  It seems only active at nights on 40m and 80m for local rag chews and inter European contacts only.

I was only ham band operator, but because the bands has gone silent, I now turned to BCL.

You need to listen to the right bands at the right times for where we are in the solar cycle. 20m is still quite active in the daytimes, and I am getting plenty of SSTV here in the USA from both Europe as well as South America and even Australia/New Zealand. It's summer right now, so static levels on 80/40 can be high at night, but there's still DX to be found.  Plus we're back to the previous conversation where a good antenna can be far more important than which receiver you are using.

Talking about pricey, ICR75 seems very expensive for what it is just because of the name? And ICOM is now no longer a Japanese company, sold to a Chinese company, so it is the name only but inside could be TECSUN or XHDATA :DD

Icom is still well respected, the IC-7300 is a highly regarded recent radio of theirs with overall excellent reviews, especially the performance for the price. I have one, it's a a great rig. Also, any used R75 you buy was made years ago anyway 

I read ICR75 reviews on eham, and most are positive, but there are some very critical negative reviews on it.  It is the negative reviews one must pay attention I feel.  Most positive reviews seem under emotional hikes of how much they lashed out the cash for a little box just sits in front of them and muffles away when switched on
/

This is certainly a problem with reviews overall, and something I consider for example when looking at reviews on Amazon. I also factor in that someone who is unhappy with their purchase is much more likely to take the time to post a negative review, than the typically happy customer. So that skews the reviews towards more negatives.

But the negative reviews on ICR75 seem common for, 1. The audio quality is bad. 2. PBT and filters don't work at all. 3. Has much noise generated by the receiver itself.

Yes, ICR75 is about 2-3 time more expensive radio than S2000, and was wondering if it is worth the money.

I seem to recall we have some R75 owners here, perhaps they can chime in eventually.  As I have said before, I don't have one, but from what I recall hearing over the years:

(1) Is true but probably something you can solve via an external speaker like I did with my R71A, but I have never heard of.

(2) Never heard of this. Might just be users who never RTFM.

(3) Seems to be an issue with the supplied power supply, substitute your own 12 linear supply and you solve it.

[RobRich]

The R75 is a comms receiver. It sounds like one, too. ;) An external speaker often is recommended, especially for broadcast listening.

Being realistic about expectations, the S2000 is basically a portable inside a desktop-style casing. You get the benefit of larger controls, a bigger speaker, and a rotating AM BCB ferrite antenna. Otherwise you likely will see no particular performance benefit compared to a popular portable like the PL-660.

About the station bleedover, that is getting into selectivity. It is difficult to say if any particular receiver will help due to a litany of variables. That said, yeah, a comms receiver with narrow/sharp filtering and attenuation control should benefit in such a situation. A *good* sync detector could help, though ECSS tuning might suffice if just trying to get away from interference dominating one of the sidebands.

If not already done, you might try ECSS tuning on a websdr next time you encounter the situation. The basic idea is to zero-beat an AM transmission while using the receiver in SSB mode. If one sideband is noisy, such as encountering a heterodyne, then try the other sideband.

[ChrisSmolinski]

Being realistic about expectations, the S2000 is basically a portable inside a desktop-style casing. You get the benefit of larger controls, a bigger speaker, and a rotating AM BCB ferrite antenna. Otherwise you likely will see no particular performance benefit compared to a popular portable like the PL-660.

Agreed. If one is less charitable, it's a portable masquerading as a communications receiver.