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Author Topic: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure  (Read 4342 times)

Offline Josh

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2019, 0033 UTC »
Guess I missed the show when Alex Jones 'splained how smart meters work.    8)

~

Something about resonating trace elements in our systems to induce spontaneous drug effects such as lsd etc, as well as localise effectiveness of "rf to brain" direct communications, ie make people think they're hearing the voice of god, and also to directly impinge and entrain the target brain with the brain waves of demented people, the comatose, people on drugs, etc.

Instead of gaslighting it'll be streetlighting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting
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Offline KaySeeks

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2019, 1651 UTC »
Where I live, all of the meters are 915 MHz Zigbee.  In the sticks, perhaps 3G or 4G.  The meters here constantly ping data, and are aggregated on a neighborhood level and sent back to the power company.  Every few block you will find a box with some whip antennas on it.

Yes, my understanding is that this takes place at 915 MHz. Most of the smart metering that I am aware of has a utility truck driving down the street, polling the individual meters as it passes, for monthly usage data. I'm not aware of the constant aggregation you describe though that would involve less fuel use.  :)
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Offline ChrisSmolinski

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2019, 1704 UTC »
The system here is also on 900-something MHz. No truck is involved, meters send data on a periodic basis, there are various receiver locations, and I believe meters can relay signals from each other to reach this site.

One advantage of this is the utility can detect power outages as well as determine their scope even without calls from consumers that their lights are out.
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Offline redhat

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2019, 2044 UTC »
The system here is also on 900-something MHz. No truck is involved, meters send data on a periodic basis, there are various receiver locations, and I believe meters can relay signals from each other to reach this site.

One advantage of this is the utility can detect power outages as well as determine their scope even without calls from consumers that their lights are out.

Yes, that's exactly how these work.  They form a mesh network with the meters and pass the data along.  If you sign up with the power provider, you can get realtime usage information.  You can also get a zigbee transceiver and do it yourself.

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Offline ChrisSmolinski

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2019, 2121 UTC »
I can view usage with an hourly resolution, I'm not sure what the actual update rate is, I suspect much faster.

There is software for the RTL dongles to decode transmissions for some power meters, but not the type used by our utility
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Offline NJQA

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2019, 1252 UTC »
The fallacy about the 5G story is that it is probably not practical the way it is described.  The high data rates described require even higher amounts of eNB (the cell site xcvr) baseband connectivity.  The short range of the RF transmissions means you need many more eNB sites than 4G...again requiring more baseband connectivity.  The physical supporting infrastructure costs to fully provide 5G coverage are staggering.  Most industry people think that 5G will only be fielded to urban areas where the density of the population can make the investment worthwhile.  Suburban and rural locations will likely only get 4G coverage.  5G will be primarily for the cities.  Even the CEOs of wireless providers have implied this.

Verizon has been bragging about how they have wired a dozen or so football stadiums for 5G.  The trade publications say that they haven’t been able to provide full coverage, even at the football stadium level.

Keep in mind that the 5G spec includes multiple frequency bands and many data rates.   Not all 5G systems are equal.  Some 5G implementations are much less breathtaking than others.  T-Mobile is looking at using 600 MHz for their system - their data rates will be  lower than those  in the high GHz range - but their equipment won’t be on the bleeding edge.

Offline KaySeeks

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2019, 2055 UTC »
Most industry people think that 5G will only be fielded to urban areas where the density of the population can make the investment worthwhile.  Suburban and rural locations will likely only get 4G coverage.  5G will be primarily for the cities.  Even the CEOs of wireless providers have implied this.

Yes. I would not worry about full-blown 1 GBPS 5G coming to East Jesus, Arkansas anytime soon.


Keep in mind that the 5G spec includes multiple frequency bands and many data rates.   Not all 5G systems are equal.  Some 5G implementations are much less breathtaking than others. 

Yes, for example, in China, they want to use 26 GHz, whereas in North America, 28 GHz has been favored, though I'm hearing things that 26 GHz might get used and European authorties are freeing up 26 GHz for this as well. I have lost track of where this is going recently though. Also, Chinese implementations will be TDMA - or at least time-divisioned anyway, North American will not. (Chinese implementation of LTE is TDMA so there's a precedent.)

In any case, it will be a hodgepodge of choices depending upon where and what point in time you refer to.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 2112 UTC by KaySeeks »
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Offline KaySeeks

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2019, 2107 UTC »
(In case anyone cares, the 5G that Verizon is rolling out in test cities in the U.S. ... with a much lower bandwidth than the full-blown 26/28 GHz version to come later.)

Correcting myself - this appears to be old information. Verizon says that their initial implementation will be on 28 and 39 GHz, with fill-in at sub-6 GHz frequencies.

https://www.verizon.com/about/our-company/5g/what-frequency-5g
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Offline Josh

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2019, 2145 UTC »
The system here is also on 900-something MHz. No truck is involved, meters send data on a periodic basis, there are various receiver locations, and I believe meters can relay signals from each other to reach this site.

One advantage of this is the utility can detect power outages as well as determine their scope even without calls from consumers that their lights are out.

You know what's going to happen here.
Fakwits, either nefarious lone hackers hacking away while wearing nefarious hoodys and employing sdr rx/tx, or some state actor (Russia, China, NK, Iran, etc) will hack these things, you guys know the utility can shut down your electric service remotely now right? If these things can be bricked via rf, we are going to have a lot of fun.
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Offline WWBR

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2019, 0226 UTC »
All I have to say, is since our meters went "smart", both me and the wife have been feeling worse, day by day. Our bed sits mere inches from the power meter outside. I can honestly surmise it's not helping us feel better, at any rate. Could be related, or not, but an interesting coorelation. Neither of us are old enough to have the problems we are having (I'm 57, she's 47. Yes, I robbed the cradle, LOL!) .
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Offline JimIO

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2019, 0329 UTC »
"you guys know the utility can shut down your electric service remotely now right?"

Post a link! I won't hold my breath waiting...

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 0331 UTC by JimIO »

Offline BoomboxDX

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2019, 0745 UTC »
The fallacy about the 5G story is that it is probably not practical the way it is described.  The high data rates described require even higher amounts of eNB (the cell site xcvr) baseband connectivity.  The short range of the RF transmissions means you need many more eNB sites than 4G...again requiring more baseband connectivity.  The physical supporting infrastructure costs to fully provide 5G coverage are staggering.  Most industry people think that 5G will only be fielded to urban areas where the density of the population can make the investment worthwhile.  Suburban and rural locations will likely only get 4G coverage.  5G will be primarily for the cities.  Even the CEOs of wireless providers have implied this.

Verizon has been bragging about how they have wired a dozen or so football stadiums for 5G.  The trade publications say that they haven’t been able to provide full coverage, even at the football stadium level.

Keep in mind that the 5G spec includes multiple frequency bands and many data rates.   Not all 5G systems are equal.  Some 5G implementations are much less breathtaking than others.  T-Mobile is looking at using 600 MHz for their system - their data rates will be  lower than those  in the high GHz range - but their equipment won’t be on the bleeding edge.

Interesting info here. This leads to a question: how much power is needed to operate a 5G system -- with all of its extra cell sites -- compared to the present system? Is anyone in the industry taking this into consideration? Right now the electric grids are almost maxed in some areas.
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Offline Pigmeat

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2019, 1327 UTC »
The system here is also on 900-something MHz. No truck is involved, meters send data on a periodic basis, there are various receiver locations, and I believe meters can relay signals from each other to reach this site.

One advantage of this is the utility can detect power outages as well as determine their scope even without calls from consumers that their lights are out.

You know what's going to happen here.
Fakwits, either nefarious lone hackers hacking away while wearing nefarious hoodys and employing sdr rx/tx, or some state actor (Russia, China, NK, Iran, etc) will hack these things, you guys know the utility can shut down your electric service remotely now right? If these things can be bricked via rf, we are going to have a lot of fun.

It's already happening, Josh. Al's arch-enemy, Kracker, had to call the cops/fire dept two days ago when his death rays power supply started to go in the suburbs west of Columbus, OH. The entire neighborhood had to be evacuated due to that nimrod. It was all over the national news. He was sent in for "observation" for the umpteenth time.

The sad thing is he'll never have first strike capabilities over Al. Al has perfected hardened aluminum foil technology. The Israelis have their "Iron Dome", Al has his "Taco Wagon Dome". It can't be cracked and that gas blowback can flatten half a continent.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 1329 UTC by Pigmeat »

Offline Pigmeat

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2019, 1651 UTC »
"you guys know the utility can shut down your electric service remotely now right?"

Post a link! I won't hold my breath waiting...

~

The electric company can do it here. They started switching to those auto-meters in the early part of this decade. Don't get three days behind on your bill or you'll be sitting in the dark. If you've got someone in the house that needs electricity for medical needs, they won't turn the power off.


Offline Josh

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Re: Experts address concerns over radio frequency exposure
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2019, 1704 UTC »
When the Taco Wagon Dome truck comes rolling into the Shady Achers parking lot it must look like the ice cream truck hit the hood back when Al was a kid, you know, the pleistocene period!
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