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Author Topic: Distance with 10W on A.M. (M.W.)  (Read 13407 times)

Stretchyman

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Distance with 10W on A.M. (M.W.)
« on: December 30, 2023, 1826 UTC »
Just had some feedback from a customer running a 10W carrier tx with a simple 8' base loaded antenna and moderate earth system.

5 miles with radio able to auto detect, 15 miles with manual tuning with signal detectable upto 35 miles.

Not bad!

Thought it best to put this up for reference as do get asked this question a lot!

Cheers

Stretchy.
'It's better to give than receive' so why Rx when you can Tx!

                                              ;)

Charlie_Dont_Surf

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Re: Distance with 10W on A.M. (M.W.)
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2024, 0128 UTC »
Assuming that they aren't planning to boost output power significantly, the best things that this person could do is 1) make the earth/ground radial system as extensive as possible and 2) add a capacity hat to the top of the (presumed) vertical antenna. Both can have dramatic effects upon antenna radiation resistance and thus antenna efficiency.
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Kage

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Re: Distance with 10W on A.M. (M.W.)
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2024, 2019 UTC »
I prefer top loading with a coil or even a combo of that and a T top hat or inverted L configuration, inductor at the 90 degree bend. Only drawback is the added top weight and the coil being much higher inductance compared to having it near the bottom tuning section when using a shortened antenna. Also getting the inductor turns right can be a pain since you have to take down and put up the contraption until it's tuned. This can be used as a single vertical antenna this way without needing to tie off wires at the top to a structure if desired.

When I've tried this I notice a considerable improvement with broadcast coverage compared to bottom loading. Has something to do with current distribution in the antenna but haven't had my coffee yet.
As Charlie_Dont_Surf recommended though your standard shortened T antenna (or capacity hat) just "works" and is even used down in the longwave band where shortened antennas are a must.

Of course getting as many radials down is the other functional section of the antenna and is equally important. Bare minimal tie to any large metal items earthed and experiment with that if you don't have the space or wire to put down over the ground.

It still amazes me how much people can pinch out of those pea shooter part 15 setups too. You'd think at some point there would be diminishing results but I guess sometimes every little thing in the overall antenna system does add up  8)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 2030 UTC by Kage »
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Brian

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Re: Distance with 10W on A.M. (M.W.)
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2024, 1856 UTC »
I prefer top loading with a coil or even a combo of that and a T top hat or inverted L configuration, inductor at the 90 degree bend. Only drawback is the added top weight and the coil being much higher inductance compared to having it near the bottom tuning section when using a shortened antenna. Also getting the inductor turns right can be a pain since you have to take down and put up the contraption until it's tuned. This can be used as a single vertical antenna this way without needing to tie off wires at the top to a structure if desired.

When I've tried this I notice a considerable improvement with broadcast coverage compared to bottom loading. Has something to do with current distribution in the antenna but haven't had my coffee yet.
As Charlie_Dont_Surf recommended though your standard shortened T antenna (or capacity hat) just "works" and is even used down in the longwave band where shortened antennas are a must.

Of course getting as many radials down is the other functional section of the antenna and is equally important. Bare minimal tie to any large metal items earthed and experiment with that if you don't have the space or wire to put down over the ground.

It still amazes me how much people can pinch out of those pea shooter part 15 setups too. You'd think at some point there would be diminishing results but I guess sometimes every little thing in the overall antenna system does add up  8)
I designed and built a MW aerial many years ago that was 2 vertical wires, about 20 inches apart, held up by 3 sets of 2 top wires, also 20 ins apart, which went to 2 trees and the house chimney. It was only about 35 or 40 feet high. It worked quite well on 846 kHz (I'm in Europe). I moved the coil to the top and a friend a couple of miles away noticed an increase in signal strength.

Using 2 wires on the vertical increased the bandwidth of the aerial considerably which made tuning much easier and also was important as I was running wide audio bandwidth. Optimod 9100 with filters defeated.

Dropping the aerial to fine tune it was a PITA so I decided to add a little extra coil at the base and fine tune it there.
I have no idea what the base impedance was, or even what impedance the TX was seeing, but as it was a home built valve TX (about 400 watts) I just tuned the TX to match the aerial.

I wish i had pics of it now but it before the days of cheap cameras and phones  :-[

I moved house 18 years ago and brought the top coil with me. It was wound on a catering mayonnaise tub  :) I still have it. The guy who bought my old house developed the site and built 2 new houses on it. I wonder what he thought of all the buried wires were for?


Charlie_Dont_Surf

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Re: Distance with 10W on A.M. (M.W.)
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2024, 0702 UTC »
ON4UN's book on low-band DXing is a good reference for this since 160 meters is reasonably close to the top of the MW band.

Chapter 9 on vertical antennas shows the effect of bottom loading (with a coil), center-loading (again with a coil) and top-loading, along with the effects of a capacity hat. Bottom line: a vertical with a capacity hat is incrementally more efficient than a top or center-loaded vertical, both of which are incrementally more efficient than a bottom-loaded vertical.

Of course, if you aren't using a vertical (or near vertical) wire, a cap hat may not be possible and there may be other practical reasons for using some of the less efficient coil loading described. The horizontal portion of an inverted L is perhaps a little bit like a cap hat but that's not really why the inverted L works reasonably well, assuming it's long enough.
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Intruder

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Re: Distance with 10W on A.M. (M.W.)
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2025, 0035 UTC »
My brief test in the past with a 1watt TX I tried a 10M vertical with tapped loading coil.

I then built a variometer for fine tuning, both loading coil and variometer where made using 110mm drainage/waste pipe.

DX-394 and PA0RDT mini whip antenna in the UK

n2avh

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Re: Distance with 10W on A.M. (M.W.)
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2025, 2127 UTC »
All I know is that around 1980 my friends and I found a power line distribution (carrier current) AM transmitter, not sure what the power was, and we put it through a tuner into a long wire antenna (for ham purposes) on the roof of our high school on Long Island. The one of us with a driver's license went around and phoned in reception reports, and we made it about 5 miles which in Nassau County is hundreds of thousands of potential listeners. I see from Google that these transmitters can be anywhere from 5 to 30 watts (from its size it certainly wasn't one of the bigger ones).
Big into SWDX late 70s through early 90s, then forgot about it and when I returned via SDRs it wasn't at all what I remembered, but I'll deal with it. Grumble, grumble. All SDRs acknowledged, nothing is from my own radio.

Albert H

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Re: Distance with 10W on A.M. (M.W.)
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2026, 0144 UTC »
We tried out a sloper (quarterwave-ish) from a tower block roof to near the ground (the lower end was tied off with fishing line to a lamppost).  The rig was earthed to the lightning conductor on the building, so the aerial was - effectively - a huge inverted V.  We were running just 8 watts carrier / 30ish peak on the lower end of the MW band.  It was pointless trying to run it at night, as the co-channel European stuff would flatten our little signal , but the daytime coverage was spectacular! 

From East London, it gave a reasonably listenable signal over most of London, south Essex and into Kent.  It was even logged at Caversham (BBC Monitoring Station). I was astonished how well it actually worked.  It was a simple CMOS synthesiser into a single switching FET for the RF side, and modulated with am LM1875 amplifier board with the output capacitor removed, so the DC from the output pin of the chip supplied the PA (down a choke).  It was capable of over 95% mod, and had crude compression and bandwidth limiting.  It sounded really good!  Total component cost for the rig was <£15.  The aerial wire was more expensive than the rig!